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	<title>Comments on: The Places of Teen Pop Culture</title>
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	<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/04/the-places-of-teen-pop-culture/</link>
	<description>Place. Limits. Liberty.</description>
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		<title>By: Sean S.</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/04/the-places-of-teen-pop-culture/#comment-930</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 19:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=2132#comment-930</guid>
		<description>The interesting thing about the Pretty in Pink reference is that Molly Ringwald&#039;s character WASN&#039;T supposed to get the rich kid; in fact, she was supposed to end up with Duckie. John Hughes explored this alternative ending in a later film of his &quot;Some Kind of Wonderful&quot;.

But that&#039;s no here no there. I think geographical segregation expands beyond merely one&#039;s location or school outward to modes of transportation. Mass-transit is the refuge of the working poor, with it often serving no greater purpose than busing the poor to work into wealthier areas and then shipping them back out at the end of the shift. And the worse thing about  is the bubble effect of driving a car everywhere from one destination to the next.

The question is to what extent will this be social engineering. Not unlike the desegregation of schools (which are still effectively segregated in many places), attempting to force or even prod individuals into a shared communal experience might engender a large amount of backlash, and the clarion call of socialism/communism/fascism and assorted nonsense. But its clear that public policy today favors the atomization of the individual, mostly I think in an unintentional manner, but it still pounds on nonetheless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The interesting thing about the Pretty in Pink reference is that Molly Ringwald&#8217;s character WASN&#8217;T supposed to get the rich kid; in fact, she was supposed to end up with Duckie. John Hughes explored this alternative ending in a later film of his &#8220;Some Kind of Wonderful&#8221;.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s no here no there. I think geographical segregation expands beyond merely one&#8217;s location or school outward to modes of transportation. Mass-transit is the refuge of the working poor, with it often serving no greater purpose than busing the poor to work into wealthier areas and then shipping them back out at the end of the shift. And the worse thing about  is the bubble effect of driving a car everywhere from one destination to the next.</p>
<p>The question is to what extent will this be social engineering. Not unlike the desegregation of schools (which are still effectively segregated in many places), attempting to force or even prod individuals into a shared communal experience might engender a large amount of backlash, and the clarion call of socialism/communism/fascism and assorted nonsense. But its clear that public policy today favors the atomization of the individual, mostly I think in an unintentional manner, but it still pounds on nonetheless.</p>
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		<title>By: The Spokesrider</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/04/the-places-of-teen-pop-culture/#comment-881</link>
		<dc:creator>The Spokesrider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=2132#comment-881</guid>
		<description>Three years ago at this time I was riding my bike on rural roads near Montgomery and Auburn, Alabama.  This was on my very first foray into the south of any kind.  It was all new and different to me.   After a few days of looking at the countryside, it occurred to me that one of the things that was different was houses of all kinds along the roads.  One house might be of someone fairly well off, the next one looked like poverty, the next one of middle-income, etc. all in random order one after another.   I didn&#039;t remember seeing many places like that in Michigan or elsewhere in the upper midwest.  I was wondering if zoning ordinances tend to result in greater economic segregation up here.  

Maybe what I saw was not a sufficient sample from which to be making such generalizations.  In fact, after I started looking closer at this phenomenon, on my last day there I saw what looked like a gated community going up outside of Auburn.

Regardless of whether my generalizations were correct, it called my attention to the fact that I enjoyed the apparent economic diversity on those rural roads.   And like you suggest, that can be healthier for democracy, too. 

(Yeah, I did think about the racial issues in Alabama, too, and how race relations were in some ways a little different than back home.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Three years ago at this time I was riding my bike on rural roads near Montgomery and Auburn, Alabama.  This was on my very first foray into the south of any kind.  It was all new and different to me.   After a few days of looking at the countryside, it occurred to me that one of the things that was different was houses of all kinds along the roads.  One house might be of someone fairly well off, the next one looked like poverty, the next one of middle-income, etc. all in random order one after another.   I didn&#8217;t remember seeing many places like that in Michigan or elsewhere in the upper midwest.  I was wondering if zoning ordinances tend to result in greater economic segregation up here.  </p>
<p>Maybe what I saw was not a sufficient sample from which to be making such generalizations.  In fact, after I started looking closer at this phenomenon, on my last day there I saw what looked like a gated community going up outside of Auburn.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether my generalizations were correct, it called my attention to the fact that I enjoyed the apparent economic diversity on those rural roads.   And like you suggest, that can be healthier for democracy, too. </p>
<p>(Yeah, I did think about the racial issues in Alabama, too, and how race relations were in some ways a little different than back home.)</p>
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		<title>By: stefanie</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/04/the-places-of-teen-pop-culture/#comment-861</link>
		<dc:creator>stefanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=2132#comment-861</guid>
		<description>I would think that as housing prices drop and foreclosures rise, the lower-middle-class, at least, would be able to buy property in formerly middle-class-only enclaves.  The same might be said for those moving from the middle class into the upper middle class.  But in general, America does tend to be pretty class-bound - at least on the way up.  There is a lot of room to fall on the way down ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would think that as housing prices drop and foreclosures rise, the lower-middle-class, at least, would be able to buy property in formerly middle-class-only enclaves.  The same might be said for those moving from the middle class into the upper middle class.  But in general, America does tend to be pretty class-bound &#8211; at least on the way up.  There is a lot of room to fall on the way down &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: D.W. Sabin</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/04/the-places-of-teen-pop-culture/#comment-856</link>
		<dc:creator>D.W. Sabin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=2132#comment-856</guid>
		<description>Television has , in many instances become the &quot;Place&quot; that people reference their lives against. It is a vicarious agora where people dip into and out of television or radio talk shows and their advertised goods within the marketplace, thinking they have actually engaged within a culture when they have done nothing of the kind, at least in any meaningful way. Church, civic organizations or friendship continue to fulfill their roles as part of an authentic agora but they are encumbered by the Fiat Culture of our media inventions. Finding the fakery of television insufficient for the support of a vivid fantasy life that replaces the monotony of &quot;reality&quot;, we now have the internet artificial reality where people can concoct a computer generated identity and live animated and busy lives devoid of the pesky affairs of reality. 

The increasing class disparity is facilitated by Television and it&#039;s vicarious agora because those who are increasingly marginalized continue to think they are part of a culture broadcasted on the airwaves. Personal craftsmanship, personal participation in an economy, personal participation in agriculture....personal participation across a broad spectrum of the constituent parts of a culture is subsumed by the vicarious agora and the give and take of a Republic erodes. One of the few productive reasons to watch television, or what passes as Television &quot;journalism&quot; is to monitor Conventional Wisdom to help one assemble a partial hold on reality by identifying the opposite of what is propounded as truth or writ on the little screen that has grown big as life.

Of course, like the larger culture, not all of television or the media is subversive of civilization , just the great majority of it. In Watching We Trust. Ennui is the spirit of the age. Paranoia insidiously gestates because a sentient being knows insentience when it sees it. This is one of the many reasons that Fear is surrendering to authoritarianism at such a rapid clip. The Skinner Box has High Production Values.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Television has , in many instances become the &#8220;Place&#8221; that people reference their lives against. It is a vicarious agora where people dip into and out of television or radio talk shows and their advertised goods within the marketplace, thinking they have actually engaged within a culture when they have done nothing of the kind, at least in any meaningful way. Church, civic organizations or friendship continue to fulfill their roles as part of an authentic agora but they are encumbered by the Fiat Culture of our media inventions. Finding the fakery of television insufficient for the support of a vivid fantasy life that replaces the monotony of &#8220;reality&#8221;, we now have the internet artificial reality where people can concoct a computer generated identity and live animated and busy lives devoid of the pesky affairs of reality. </p>
<p>The increasing class disparity is facilitated by Television and it&#8217;s vicarious agora because those who are increasingly marginalized continue to think they are part of a culture broadcasted on the airwaves. Personal craftsmanship, personal participation in an economy, personal participation in agriculture&#8230;.personal participation across a broad spectrum of the constituent parts of a culture is subsumed by the vicarious agora and the give and take of a Republic erodes. One of the few productive reasons to watch television, or what passes as Television &#8220;journalism&#8221; is to monitor Conventional Wisdom to help one assemble a partial hold on reality by identifying the opposite of what is propounded as truth or writ on the little screen that has grown big as life.</p>
<p>Of course, like the larger culture, not all of television or the media is subversive of civilization , just the great majority of it. In Watching We Trust. Ennui is the spirit of the age. Paranoia insidiously gestates because a sentient being knows insentience when it sees it. This is one of the many reasons that Fear is surrendering to authoritarianism at such a rapid clip. The Skinner Box has High Production Values.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/04/the-places-of-teen-pop-culture/#comment-853</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=2132#comment-853</guid>
		<description>Perhaps this is something that was waiting to happen for many years now. Obviously, all human societies have made distinctions based on background determinants such as class and birth. This stratification, then, cannot be ideologically pounded out of human nature. A problem with this, though, is that this process has happened despite the democratic instinct of modern man and therefore will be tainted with modern liberal underpinnings. In other words, our social stratification might be just as distorted as the idea of a classless society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps this is something that was waiting to happen for many years now. Obviously, all human societies have made distinctions based on background determinants such as class and birth. This stratification, then, cannot be ideologically pounded out of human nature. A problem with this, though, is that this process has happened despite the democratic instinct of modern man and therefore will be tainted with modern liberal underpinnings. In other words, our social stratification might be just as distorted as the idea of a classless society.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim A</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/04/the-places-of-teen-pop-culture/#comment-850</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 14:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=2132#comment-850</guid>
		<description>The &quot;area code metaphor&quot; emerged fascinatingly from the 2002 Eminem film 8 Mile. The climactic rap tournament turns on the &quot;white trash&quot; Rabbit&#039;s success in framing his &quot;ghetto thug&quot; opponent Papa Doc as part of the &quot;248,&quot; while earning for himself the thundrous embrace of the black &quot;313&quot; audience.

The crowd cast aside Papa Doc as the son of a prosperous two-parent family, educated at the prestigious Cranbrook Academy in wealthy Oakland County (the 248). 8 Mile Road serves as the &quot;tracks&quot; that separate the white 248 to the north from the black 313 of the city of Detroit.

Sadly, the movie didn&#039;t futher explore the added complexity as one moves further east along 8 Mile--the 586 of Macomb County, the white working class home from which Eminem emerged. The class issue was dramatically condensed to Black/White, with the border porous (negro Papa Doc is now 248 White, caucasian Rabbit is now 313 Black). But is 586 Macomb County (working class White America) really closer to 313 Detroit (working class Black) or to 248 Oakland (ruling class White)?

Perhaps Eminem and Curtis Hanson will sort it out next time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;area code metaphor&#8221; emerged fascinatingly from the 2002 Eminem film 8 Mile. The climactic rap tournament turns on the &#8220;white trash&#8221; Rabbit&#8217;s success in framing his &#8220;ghetto thug&#8221; opponent Papa Doc as part of the &#8220;248,&#8221; while earning for himself the thundrous embrace of the black &#8220;313&#8243; audience.</p>
<p>The crowd cast aside Papa Doc as the son of a prosperous two-parent family, educated at the prestigious Cranbrook Academy in wealthy Oakland County (the 248). 8 Mile Road serves as the &#8220;tracks&#8221; that separate the white 248 to the north from the black 313 of the city of Detroit.</p>
<p>Sadly, the movie didn&#8217;t futher explore the added complexity as one moves further east along 8 Mile&#8211;the 586 of Macomb County, the white working class home from which Eminem emerged. The class issue was dramatically condensed to Black/White, with the border porous (negro Papa Doc is now 248 White, caucasian Rabbit is now 313 Black). But is 586 Macomb County (working class White America) really closer to 313 Detroit (working class Black) or to 248 Oakland (ruling class White)?</p>
<p>Perhaps Eminem and Curtis Hanson will sort it out next time.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Ford</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/04/the-places-of-teen-pop-culture/#comment-849</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 14:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=2132#comment-849</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your reflections, Prof. McWilliams. 

Perhaps you could take a moment to clarify what you see as the problem. 

In places, it seems your critique is directed against economic stratification per se as a threat to healthy democracy. I&#039;m not sure there would be sufficient evidence to back up that claim (and I don&#039;t think this is your claim, though I&#039;m not entirely sure--hence the request for clarification). It is not immediately obvious that the presence of clearly distinguishable economic classes is harmful to a community--cf. the charming symbiosis of this traditional English village (all three links cover the same story, but all are brief and each has different tidbits that help paint the picture):  

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090316/od_nm/us_britain_village

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29757970/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7949319.stm

I think, though, that your main argument is not against economic stratification per se, but against the communal segregation that often results from this stratification, especially in America. Hence:  

&quot;Given that a certain amount of economic stratification is inevitable in a democracy, Tocqueville saw how the daily interaction among different classes does more than just mute class resentment. It points everyone, wealthy and not-so-wealthy, toward the idea that our different material standings are less important than our shared citizenship. Rich or poor, we all vote at the same polling stations — and we all end up at the same prom.&quot; Or the same harvest celebration, as the case may be; as with Pretty in Pink, in the above story of the English village, the shared citizenship goes much deeper than equal suffrage. 

Have I interpreted your piece correctly? 

(Let me be clear that my comment should not be interpreted as a call for return to an aristocratic communal model. There are few places left in the Western world where such a model could work anymore, and America certainly isn&#039;t one of them.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your reflections, Prof. McWilliams. </p>
<p>Perhaps you could take a moment to clarify what you see as the problem. </p>
<p>In places, it seems your critique is directed against economic stratification per se as a threat to healthy democracy. I&#8217;m not sure there would be sufficient evidence to back up that claim (and I don&#8217;t think this is your claim, though I&#8217;m not entirely sure&#8211;hence the request for clarification). It is not immediately obvious that the presence of clearly distinguishable economic classes is harmful to a community&#8211;cf. the charming symbiosis of this traditional English village (all three links cover the same story, but all are brief and each has different tidbits that help paint the picture):  </p>
<p><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090316/od_nm/us_britain_village" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090316/od_nm/us_britain_village</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29757970/" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29757970/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7949319.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7949319.stm</a></p>
<p>I think, though, that your main argument is not against economic stratification per se, but against the communal segregation that often results from this stratification, especially in America. Hence:  </p>
<p>&#8220;Given that a certain amount of economic stratification is inevitable in a democracy, Tocqueville saw how the daily interaction among different classes does more than just mute class resentment. It points everyone, wealthy and not-so-wealthy, toward the idea that our different material standings are less important than our shared citizenship. Rich or poor, we all vote at the same polling stations — and we all end up at the same prom.&#8221; Or the same harvest celebration, as the case may be; as with Pretty in Pink, in the above story of the English village, the shared citizenship goes much deeper than equal suffrage. </p>
<p>Have I interpreted your piece correctly? </p>
<p>(Let me be clear that my comment should not be interpreted as a call for return to an aristocratic communal model. There are few places left in the Western world where such a model could work anymore, and America certainly isn&#8217;t one of them.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/04/the-places-of-teen-pop-culture/#comment-840</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 23:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=2132#comment-840</guid>
		<description>Fantastic piece.  Perhaps the metaphor of area codes should be further explained to show that the sprawling suburban development without regard to smart growth or public spaces is one of the main causes of today&#039;s growing sense of alienation and dislocation.  The obvious outgrowth of which is more developments to shelter ourselves from a disturbingly and ever-increasingly barbarous class struggle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic piece.  Perhaps the metaphor of area codes should be further explained to show that the sprawling suburban development without regard to smart growth or public spaces is one of the main causes of today&#8217;s growing sense of alienation and dislocation.  The obvious outgrowth of which is more developments to shelter ourselves from a disturbingly and ever-increasingly barbarous class struggle.</p>
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