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	<title>Comments on: The Eccentricity of the Saints</title>
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	<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/</link>
	<description>Place. Limits. Liberty.</description>
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		<title>By: Julien Peter Benney</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-23780</link>
		<dc:creator>Julien Peter Benney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 02:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-23780</guid>
		<description>Fascinating point. Although I certainly know that many devout Christians have been remarkably eccentric, from Dorothy Day to the confessed sinner Eric Gill to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/sara-maitland-a-very-unlikely-modern-hermit-970896.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sara Maitland today&lt;/a&gt;, I never knew in any way that the word &quot;eccentric&quot; actually came about from a religious source. Yet, the description does fit in with what I know about people who are called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Category:Traits_:_Personality_:_Eccentric&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;eccentric&quot;&lt;/a&gt; so well that it is hard for me to reject it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating point. Although I certainly know that many devout Christians have been remarkably eccentric, from Dorothy Day to the confessed sinner Eric Gill to <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/sara-maitland-a-very-unlikely-modern-hermit-970896.html" rel="nofollow">Sara Maitland today</a>, I never knew in any way that the word &#8220;eccentric&#8221; actually came about from a religious source. Yet, the description does fit in with what I know about people who are called <a href="http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Category:Traits_:_Personality_:_Eccentric" rel="nofollow">eccentric&#8221;</a> so well that it is hard for me to reject it.</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-22856</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-22856</guid>
		<description>Kierkegaard was the first to levy this type of critique of modern man.  He did so implicitly in nearly all of his writings, but explicitly in The Two Ages. Here, he points out that modern society, founded on a notion of democracy or equality as opposed to hierarchy, no longer idealizes the saint as such, but tries to level him/her to the crowd. In this book, he talks about the changes in modern man, a lack of passion, a lack of devoutness, a increase in eccentricity/individuality/conformity- all things you noted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kierkegaard was the first to levy this type of critique of modern man.  He did so implicitly in nearly all of his writings, but explicitly in The Two Ages. Here, he points out that modern society, founded on a notion of democracy or equality as opposed to hierarchy, no longer idealizes the saint as such, but tries to level him/her to the crowd. In this book, he talks about the changes in modern man, a lack of passion, a lack of devoutness, a increase in eccentricity/individuality/conformity- all things you noted.</p>
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		<title>By: James Matthew Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9984</link>
		<dc:creator>James Matthew Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9984</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s an appropriate coda, from the CNA site:

From the cross, Jesus sees his mother and the beloved apostle, an important individual, but more importantly a prefigurement of loved people and especially all priests.

“The Second Vatican Council invites priests to see Mary as the perfect model of their existence,” the Pope added.

“The Curé d&#039;Ars, who we think of this year especially, loved to repeat that after Jesus Christ gave us everything he could give, he wanted to make us heirs of what was most precious to him, his holy mother,” the Pope continued. “This applies to all Christians, but especially for priests.”

Thanks, JD, for the kind words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an appropriate coda, from the CNA site:</p>
<p>From the cross, Jesus sees his mother and the beloved apostle, an important individual, but more importantly a prefigurement of loved people and especially all priests.</p>
<p>“The Second Vatican Council invites priests to see Mary as the perfect model of their existence,” the Pope added.</p>
<p>“The Curé d&#8217;Ars, who we think of this year especially, loved to repeat that after Jesus Christ gave us everything he could give, he wanted to make us heirs of what was most precious to him, his holy mother,” the Pope continued. “This applies to all Christians, but especially for priests.”</p>
<p>Thanks, JD, for the kind words.</p>
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		<title>By: JD Salyer</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9838</link>
		<dc:creator>JD Salyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9838</guid>
		<description>A great piece -- hopefully it stuck with a few of the students @ Notre Dame.  The last couple paragraphs are especially zingers.  Ideally every Catholic school in the country would have a writer of Mr. Wilson&#039;s calibre providing thought-provoking, eye-opening, and complacency-breaking commentary in the school&#039;s paper on a regular basis, to let kids know there is a serious alternative to the Left/Right charade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great piece &#8212; hopefully it stuck with a few of the students @ Notre Dame.  The last couple paragraphs are especially zingers.  Ideally every Catholic school in the country would have a writer of Mr. Wilson&#8217;s calibre providing thought-provoking, eye-opening, and complacency-breaking commentary in the school&#8217;s paper on a regular basis, to let kids know there is a serious alternative to the Left/Right charade.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Cheeks</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9796</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Cheeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9796</guid>
		<description>Thanks, I needed that.
Spending the day in the deep and dark primordial woods; little critters squirreling about, a copperhead-impressive beast-challenges me but I halt and change course, it&#039;s his domain. Deer sign everywhere.
The trees are thick and fat and time for harvest, the creeks&#039; dried up in the August heat but pools lie in anguish awaiting the fall rains. It&#039;s thirty years and I haven&#039;t taken many trees and all that were cut were for my wood; heat and greenwood buildings. Two great oaks blown down in the storms that course along the valley; one is 32&quot; girth, the other  35&quot; and both forty or fifty foot before a branch and when the Amish men are done with the woods and my share is at hand, it&#039;ll pay for the land purchased in 1975. And, the growth will begin again.
And, next spring, God willing, I&#039;ll plant a few hundred oaks, maples, populars, ect. on the hill and that&#039;ll be my legacy...Cheeks&#039;s Woods!
And, we got Great Blue Herons too, down in the swamp along the Mattix Road, but I never go in that swamp, not even the coon dogs will go in...particularly when the lights failin&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, I needed that.<br />
Spending the day in the deep and dark primordial woods; little critters squirreling about, a copperhead-impressive beast-challenges me but I halt and change course, it&#8217;s his domain. Deer sign everywhere.<br />
The trees are thick and fat and time for harvest, the creeks&#8217; dried up in the August heat but pools lie in anguish awaiting the fall rains. It&#8217;s thirty years and I haven&#8217;t taken many trees and all that were cut were for my wood; heat and greenwood buildings. Two great oaks blown down in the storms that course along the valley; one is 32&#8243; girth, the other  35&#8243; and both forty or fifty foot before a branch and when the Amish men are done with the woods and my share is at hand, it&#8217;ll pay for the land purchased in 1975. And, the growth will begin again.<br />
And, next spring, God willing, I&#8217;ll plant a few hundred oaks, maples, populars, ect. on the hill and that&#8217;ll be my legacy&#8230;Cheeks&#8217;s Woods!<br />
And, we got Great Blue Herons too, down in the swamp along the Mattix Road, but I never go in that swamp, not even the coon dogs will go in&#8230;particularly when the lights failin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: D.W. Sabin</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9790</link>
		<dc:creator>D.W. Sabin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9790</guid>
		<description>Cheeks, 
Every time I light the Cheroot, it is a solemn act in beloved tribute to local commerce because the only proper wrapping is Connecticut Shade Grown. As a globalist, the innards might be Cuban Seed Dominican or Honduran but the crowning glory is always a spotless and most voluptuously chocolate-toned Connecticut Leaf.  The last time the local elementary school site was the venue for productive work was when it was a tobacco field somewhere around 1902. Tobacco once sucked the floodplain soils dry of nutrients and now the school continues the tradition by sucking every last original thought from an originality-averse student body of innocent victims.We are down to our last Tobacco Barns along the Connecticut River, north of Hartford. Unfortunately, we are not down to our last government program...those seem to grow like blight in the humid air.

Not that schooling is bad mind you, it just aint quite schooling no more. It is that thing we lovingly refer to as &quot;self-esteem building&quot; where the day used to begin with the Pledge of Allegiance but now starts with some collective notion that everybody is GRAND as long as the Federal Standards for the non-leaving behind of children are met.

It is the Dog Days of August my &quot;cheer-spreading&quot; friend, time for lemonade, a dip in the ocean or maybe gathering the second cut of hay on the off chance that it wasn&#039;t dusted with mold by the relentless and unceasing deluge this year. The other day, I watched a Great Blue Heron perched on a vanishing boulder in the middle of the Housatonic River as it muddily reached the top of its banks and he had a look of helpless disappointment that reminded me of an honest man disembarking the train at the Washington D.C. station. Not that there are no honest men or woman in Washington, they&#039;re just perched precariously on a boulder watching a flood of hustlers and mountebanks rush by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheeks,<br />
Every time I light the Cheroot, it is a solemn act in beloved tribute to local commerce because the only proper wrapping is Connecticut Shade Grown. As a globalist, the innards might be Cuban Seed Dominican or Honduran but the crowning glory is always a spotless and most voluptuously chocolate-toned Connecticut Leaf.  The last time the local elementary school site was the venue for productive work was when it was a tobacco field somewhere around 1902. Tobacco once sucked the floodplain soils dry of nutrients and now the school continues the tradition by sucking every last original thought from an originality-averse student body of innocent victims.We are down to our last Tobacco Barns along the Connecticut River, north of Hartford. Unfortunately, we are not down to our last government program&#8230;those seem to grow like blight in the humid air.</p>
<p>Not that schooling is bad mind you, it just aint quite schooling no more. It is that thing we lovingly refer to as &#8220;self-esteem building&#8221; where the day used to begin with the Pledge of Allegiance but now starts with some collective notion that everybody is GRAND as long as the Federal Standards for the non-leaving behind of children are met.</p>
<p>It is the Dog Days of August my &#8220;cheer-spreading&#8221; friend, time for lemonade, a dip in the ocean or maybe gathering the second cut of hay on the off chance that it wasn&#8217;t dusted with mold by the relentless and unceasing deluge this year. The other day, I watched a Great Blue Heron perched on a vanishing boulder in the middle of the Housatonic River as it muddily reached the top of its banks and he had a look of helpless disappointment that reminded me of an honest man disembarking the train at the Washington D.C. station. Not that there are no honest men or woman in Washington, they&#8217;re just perched precariously on a boulder watching a flood of hustlers and mountebanks rush by.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Cheeks</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9781</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Cheeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9781</guid>
		<description>Here I am trying to spread cheer and the spirit of inquiry and there you are p**ing on my little parade! 
Is it me, or have the firey blogs slowed to a trickle? No fight to be fought, no error to be corrected,.... we are all PoMoCons now? 
And you the most significant, because of those foul cigars with imported tobaccos, harvested by slave labor, hand made by craftsmen imprisoned for participating in the collectivized Catholic Distributist movement; for no crunchy, kumbaya singin,&#039; furrow hopin&#039;, Back-to-the-Lander would ere do that unless he were from Kentucky and was ingesting the foul weed as a service to the local economy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here I am trying to spread cheer and the spirit of inquiry and there you are p**ing on my little parade!<br />
Is it me, or have the firey blogs slowed to a trickle? No fight to be fought, no error to be corrected,&#8230;. we are all PoMoCons now?<br />
And you the most significant, because of those foul cigars with imported tobaccos, harvested by slave labor, hand made by craftsmen imprisoned for participating in the collectivized Catholic Distributist movement; for no crunchy, kumbaya singin,&#8217; furrow hopin&#8217;, Back-to-the-Lander would ere do that unless he were from Kentucky and was ingesting the foul weed as a service to the local economy!</p>
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		<title>By: D.W. Sabin</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9775</link>
		<dc:creator>D.W. Sabin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9775</guid>
		<description>...&quot;that hygienic arm of the modern State, mass education&quot;....luvlay.
To the eccentric, we owe much....if not all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8221;that hygienic arm of the modern State, mass education&#8221;&#8230;.luvlay.<br />
To the eccentric, we owe much&#8230;.if not all.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Cheeks</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9592</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Cheeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9592</guid>
		<description>Prof., that was the best explanation of the concept of &quot;saint&quot; I&#039;ve ever read. The final paragraph is exceptional and needs a little contemplation because of the depth and breadth of the differentiation. I should mention Mgsr Sokolowski is a favorite.
Someday, if you would be so kind, I&#039;d really like to read an explanation of the Co-Redeem thingy. When the wife and I visit Univ. of STeub. (Franciscans) I see a number of books on the matter but haven&#039;t gotten one yet and can&#039;t find any Micks that wanna talk about it. Back in my day in the RCChurch I don&#039;t remember it being a subject, of course that was prior to 1967, and we did the Mass in Latin.
Again, thanks for your response.
The Irishtown Jacobin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof., that was the best explanation of the concept of &#8220;saint&#8221; I&#8217;ve ever read. The final paragraph is exceptional and needs a little contemplation because of the depth and breadth of the differentiation. I should mention Mgsr Sokolowski is a favorite.<br />
Someday, if you would be so kind, I&#8217;d really like to read an explanation of the Co-Redeem thingy. When the wife and I visit Univ. of STeub. (Franciscans) I see a number of books on the matter but haven&#8217;t gotten one yet and can&#8217;t find any Micks that wanna talk about it. Back in my day in the RCChurch I don&#8217;t remember it being a subject, of course that was prior to 1967, and we did the Mass in Latin.<br />
Again, thanks for your response.<br />
The Irishtown Jacobin</p>
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		<title>By: James Matthew Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9588</link>
		<dc:creator>James Matthew Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9588</guid>
		<description>Hi, Bob,

I see there was a typo in my last comment, which I have corrected.  The relevant sentence should read &quot;In a manner of speaking, the more closely we conform ourselves to the figure of Christ, the more [not most] we shall resemble Mary.&quot;

I can see you are looking for a more interesting answer that I can give; for this claim does not enter into questions of Co-Redemption (at least so far as I can see, or rather, at least not directly) but of the uniqueness of Christ as God and on the limits of our final communion with the divine, our sanctification, in which we would join the Communion of Saints itself and contemplate the face of God.

To be brief, saints imitate Christ; indeed the Christian life is formed on the form of Christ, as a sketch of a chair is formed on a chair itself, but is not in fact the chair.  When Christ died on the cross, he literally died with our sins upon him and for those sins.  When a martyr died, thereby becoming a saint, his death does not in itself accomplish anything; however as a witness (which is what &quot;martyr&quot; means), his death testifies, witnesses, in a word, signifies the death of Christ.  He does not become Christ, but becomes merely a sign of him.

All Christians recognize this as a noble act.  We respect it indeed, technically, we venerate him for it.  Hence the great fittingness of the canonization of saints, where we offer our dearest veneration to those whose lives in a particular way signal Christ to us.  This is distinct from, and infinitely less than, being Christ.

If we do not make this radical distinction, then we are confronted with a number of heretical conclusions: a) if I could become Christ rather than just Christ-like through martyrdom or any action, then that would mean I could redeem myself by my own will (Pelagianism); b) or we would reduce the life of Christ to strictly human actions, i.e. calling Christ a Saint rather than the very source and end of our sanctification (Arianism); and c) we would lose a means of appreciating the rich mediating reality of Sainthood, which connects all creation into one pageant performed in the love of God, and thus would fail to distinguish adequately between worship and veneration, would miss the singularity of Christ as well as the imitative goodness of the life of infused virtue.  There&#039;s a grave confusion that has been introduced into a lot of non-Catholic Christian theology because of its inability to make these distinctions; human life gets devalued by being inadequately venerated, while sometimes we see this tendency unfold in the lowering of what should be the worship of Christ to the mere veneration of Jesus as man (or &quot;Saint&quot;).

And so, my phrasing: clearly, we are called to take up our cross and follow Christ.  But when we do that, what we resemble most closely is Mary, the one who was absolutely docile before the order of God&#039;s love, who was united with God, not as the Son is with the Father, but as as a mother is with her child (He was in her, and she was of Him without Being him).  And so our imitation of Christ makes us, at our best, to look spiritually like Mary (the nuances required here because of Mary&#039;s Immaculate Conception and consequent Assumption are another day&#039;s work, but not essential to clarifying my point).

I hope that helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Bob,</p>
<p>I see there was a typo in my last comment, which I have corrected.  The relevant sentence should read &#8220;In a manner of speaking, the more closely we conform ourselves to the figure of Christ, the more [not most] we shall resemble Mary.&#8221;</p>
<p>I can see you are looking for a more interesting answer that I can give; for this claim does not enter into questions of Co-Redemption (at least so far as I can see, or rather, at least not directly) but of the uniqueness of Christ as God and on the limits of our final communion with the divine, our sanctification, in which we would join the Communion of Saints itself and contemplate the face of God.</p>
<p>To be brief, saints imitate Christ; indeed the Christian life is formed on the form of Christ, as a sketch of a chair is formed on a chair itself, but is not in fact the chair.  When Christ died on the cross, he literally died with our sins upon him and for those sins.  When a martyr died, thereby becoming a saint, his death does not in itself accomplish anything; however as a witness (which is what &#8220;martyr&#8221; means), his death testifies, witnesses, in a word, signifies the death of Christ.  He does not become Christ, but becomes merely a sign of him.</p>
<p>All Christians recognize this as a noble act.  We respect it indeed, technically, we venerate him for it.  Hence the great fittingness of the canonization of saints, where we offer our dearest veneration to those whose lives in a particular way signal Christ to us.  This is distinct from, and infinitely less than, being Christ.</p>
<p>If we do not make this radical distinction, then we are confronted with a number of heretical conclusions: a) if I could become Christ rather than just Christ-like through martyrdom or any action, then that would mean I could redeem myself by my own will (Pelagianism); b) or we would reduce the life of Christ to strictly human actions, i.e. calling Christ a Saint rather than the very source and end of our sanctification (Arianism); and c) we would lose a means of appreciating the rich mediating reality of Sainthood, which connects all creation into one pageant performed in the love of God, and thus would fail to distinguish adequately between worship and veneration, would miss the singularity of Christ as well as the imitative goodness of the life of infused virtue.  There&#8217;s a grave confusion that has been introduced into a lot of non-Catholic Christian theology because of its inability to make these distinctions; human life gets devalued by being inadequately venerated, while sometimes we see this tendency unfold in the lowering of what should be the worship of Christ to the mere veneration of Jesus as man (or &#8220;Saint&#8221;).</p>
<p>And so, my phrasing: clearly, we are called to take up our cross and follow Christ.  But when we do that, what we resemble most closely is Mary, the one who was absolutely docile before the order of God&#8217;s love, who was united with God, not as the Son is with the Father, but as as a mother is with her child (He was in her, and she was of Him without Being him).  And so our imitation of Christ makes us, at our best, to look spiritually like Mary (the nuances required here because of Mary&#8217;s Immaculate Conception and consequent Assumption are another day&#8217;s work, but not essential to clarifying my point).</p>
<p>I hope that helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Cheeks</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9586</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Cheeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9586</guid>
		<description>&quot;But he did and there was. In a manner of speaking, the more closely we conform ourselves to the figure of Christ, the most we shall resemble Mary.&quot;

I am not being snarky, but could you explain the above sentence...a blog if necessary and feel free to be as theological as you will and please go into the Co-Redemption (doctrine/dogma?) if necessary. I believe you just opened a thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But he did and there was. In a manner of speaking, the more closely we conform ourselves to the figure of Christ, the most we shall resemble Mary.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am not being snarky, but could you explain the above sentence&#8230;a blog if necessary and feel free to be as theological as you will and please go into the Co-Redemption (doctrine/dogma?) if necessary. I believe you just opened a thread.</p>
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		<title>By: James Matthew Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9575</link>
		<dc:creator>James Matthew Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9575</guid>
		<description>Weasley: I think your just thoughts came through clearly.

Justin: Surely most of what you say gets to the very heart of my argument; it is not mere pedantry that requires me to point out, however, that Christ was not a Saint.  If Christ is the Logos, who forms all things, then it must be the very defintion of a saint to conform to Him.  If He were merely a saint, in imitating Christ we could be Christ, and if we could be Christ He would not have had to become incarnate and die for us, nor would there have been any humiliation in His having done so.  But he did and there was.  In a manner of speaking, the more closely we conform ourselves to the figure of Christ, the more we shall resemble Mary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Weasley: I think your just thoughts came through clearly.</p>
<p>Justin: Surely most of what you say gets to the very heart of my argument; it is not mere pedantry that requires me to point out, however, that Christ was not a Saint.  If Christ is the Logos, who forms all things, then it must be the very defintion of a saint to conform to Him.  If He were merely a saint, in imitating Christ we could be Christ, and if we could be Christ He would not have had to become incarnate and die for us, nor would there have been any humiliation in His having done so.  But he did and there was.  In a manner of speaking, the more closely we conform ourselves to the figure of Christ, the more we shall resemble Mary.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Isaac</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9572</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Isaac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9572</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the thoughts! Well said. It made me think of the one Saint who was truly &quot;normal&quot;, yet was murdered for his testament: Jesus Christ. In a fallen world, pursuing after the footsteps of Christ will always seem foolish and incomprehensible. When people start to &quot;whisper in corridors and rear back our heads like furious pack horses...&quot; that&#039;s when we know we are on the right track. I wonder if non-conformity is the goal, or should it rather be, conformity to the Word of God and person of Christ? 

Thanks again. 

-J</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the thoughts! Well said. It made me think of the one Saint who was truly &#8220;normal&#8221;, yet was murdered for his testament: Jesus Christ. In a fallen world, pursuing after the footsteps of Christ will always seem foolish and incomprehensible. When people start to &#8220;whisper in corridors and rear back our heads like furious pack horses&#8230;&#8221; that&#8217;s when we know we are on the right track. I wonder if non-conformity is the goal, or should it rather be, conformity to the Word of God and person of Christ? </p>
<p>Thanks again. </p>
<p>-J</p>
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		<title>By: Weasly Pilgrim</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9496</link>
		<dc:creator>Weasly Pilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9496</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;As our society shows time and time again, the prelude to severe persecution is the making of persons into unintelligible commodities; once we cease to read a person as a person we feel freer to read him as a menace worthy of extermination.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Scary, but true, considering the time we live in.  Among other things, we are grimly prosecuting the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/11/the_war_on_the.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;War On The Unexpected&lt;/a&gt;.  Any oddball doing something unintelligible is at least suspected of harboring ill intent, if not of being outright dangerous.  Eccentricity is becoming out-of-bounds.

In my earlier comment, I kind of latched on to the general idea of eccentricity apart from the notion of saintliness, and perhaps I implied that eccentricity, in and of itself, was some sort of absolute good.  Not so.  The saints are not saintly because they are eccentric, but they are eccentric because they are saintly.  Nonetheless, I think the general experience of the eccentric can illuminate the more rarefied experience of the saint, and make the saint more intelligible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>As our society shows time and time again, the prelude to severe persecution is the making of persons into unintelligible commodities; once we cease to read a person as a person we feel freer to read him as a menace worthy of extermination.</p></blockquote>
<p>Scary, but true, considering the time we live in.  Among other things, we are grimly prosecuting the <a href="http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/11/the_war_on_the.html" rel="nofollow">War On The Unexpected</a>.  Any oddball doing something unintelligible is at least suspected of harboring ill intent, if not of being outright dangerous.  Eccentricity is becoming out-of-bounds.</p>
<p>In my earlier comment, I kind of latched on to the general idea of eccentricity apart from the notion of saintliness, and perhaps I implied that eccentricity, in and of itself, was some sort of absolute good.  Not so.  The saints are not saintly because they are eccentric, but they are eccentric because they are saintly.  Nonetheless, I think the general experience of the eccentric can illuminate the more rarefied experience of the saint, and make the saint more intelligible.</p>
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		<title>By: John Médaille</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9490</link>
		<dc:creator>John Médaille</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9490</guid>
		<description>Hmm. And interesting question. Why, in the flood of canonizations, was G. K. not a candidate? Perhaps no one has come forth with a miracle to attribute to him. Therefore, I shall pray to G. K. and ask for a miracle. But it will have to be something truly spectacular to advance his cause, something truly Chestertonian and beyond the realm of possible natural explanation. Something like men of reason becoming reasonable, or conservatives finding something worth conserving, or liberals discovering liberality, possibly even with their own money rather than the public&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm. And interesting question. Why, in the flood of canonizations, was G. K. not a candidate? Perhaps no one has come forth with a miracle to attribute to him. Therefore, I shall pray to G. K. and ask for a miracle. But it will have to be something truly spectacular to advance his cause, something truly Chestertonian and beyond the realm of possible natural explanation. Something like men of reason becoming reasonable, or conservatives finding something worth conserving, or liberals discovering liberality, possibly even with their own money rather than the public&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: James Matthew Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/08/the-eccentricity-of-the-saints/#comment-9486</link>
		<dc:creator>James Matthew Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=5159#comment-9486</guid>
		<description>Dear Amod,

My argument and John Paul II&#039;s actions are related.  John Paul said on several occasions that one reason for the increase in canonizations was that our times were in especially desperate need of the examples of the saints; watching the decreasing intelligibility of sainthood and holiness unfold in his lifetime, John Paul did what he could to reverse it.  By the nature of his office, he was uniquely positioned to counter that trend by canonizing more saints.  Whether this had the desired effect is another question.

Needless to say, my essay does not indict John Paul II for failing to understand sainthood, but our culture more generally.  I should also add that John Paul frequently explained the increase in canonizations also in terms of the particular barbarity of our age.  Not only did we need saintly examples more than ever, but, because of the particular evils of the Twentieth Century, more saints were being &quot;made&quot; by being unmade.  I haven&#039;t bothered to count, but thinking back to his Pontificate, I recall that the vast majority of saints he canonized were martyrs; in this respect, John Paul was prophetic in his choices of canonization, for already we see that Christianity has entered a new age of martyrdom: outside the West, Catholic Nuns are being raped and killed, priests and missionaries persecuted and executed, and Christian communities &quot;cleansed.&quot;  In the West, they are being harrassed and penalized by bureaucratic means, mocked in effigy in the mass media, and, as the essay emphasized, becoming generally unintelligible to most de-Christianized persons.  As our society shows time and time again, the prelude to severe persecution is the making of persons into unintelligible commodities; once we cease to read a person as a person we feel freer to read him as a menace worthy of extermination.  Good and evil alike are founded on exegesis, aren&#039;t they?

Thanks to everyone for the kind comments.  This is a favorite short essay of mine, and I&#039;m glad it found sympathetic ears.  If anyone else wishes to compare me to Chesterton or Sayers, please don&#039;t hesitate to write!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Amod,</p>
<p>My argument and John Paul II&#8217;s actions are related.  John Paul said on several occasions that one reason for the increase in canonizations was that our times were in especially desperate need of the examples of the saints; watching the decreasing intelligibility of sainthood and holiness unfold in his lifetime, John Paul did what he could to reverse it.  By the nature of his office, he was uniquely positioned to counter that trend by canonizing more saints.  Whether this had the desired effect is another question.</p>
<p>Needless to say, my essay does not indict John Paul II for failing to understand sainthood, but our culture more generally.  I should also add that John Paul frequently explained the increase in canonizations also in terms of the particular barbarity of our age.  Not only did we need saintly examples more than ever, but, because of the particular evils of the Twentieth Century, more saints were being &#8220;made&#8221; by being unmade.  I haven&#8217;t bothered to count, but thinking back to his Pontificate, I recall that the vast majority of saints he canonized were martyrs; in this respect, John Paul was prophetic in his choices of canonization, for already we see that Christianity has entered a new age of martyrdom: outside the West, Catholic Nuns are being raped and killed, priests and missionaries persecuted and executed, and Christian communities &#8220;cleansed.&#8221;  In the West, they are being harrassed and penalized by bureaucratic means, mocked in effigy in the mass media, and, as the essay emphasized, becoming generally unintelligible to most de-Christianized persons.  As our society shows time and time again, the prelude to severe persecution is the making of persons into unintelligible commodities; once we cease to read a person as a person we feel freer to read him as a menace worthy of extermination.  Good and evil alike are founded on exegesis, aren&#8217;t they?</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for the kind comments.  This is a favorite short essay of mine, and I&#8217;m glad it found sympathetic ears.  If anyone else wishes to compare me to Chesterton or Sayers, please don&#8217;t hesitate to write!</p>
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