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	<title>Comments on: Long Live the Luddites</title>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-61270</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I mean, it is a term that has grown to mean anti-technology. Regardless of its origin, like many words. Would it ease you if we simply use a lowercase L?

They may have been good people, and they still are, but a word means how it is used.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mean, it is a term that has grown to mean anti-technology. Regardless of its origin, like many words. Would it ease you if we simply use a lowercase L?</p>
<p>They may have been good people, and they still are, but a word means how it is used.</p>
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		<title>By: Horse drawn implements for sale &#124; Home and Family</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-23263</link>
		<dc:creator>Horse drawn implements for sale &#124; Home and Family</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 12:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Long Live the Luddites &#124; Front Porch Republic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Long Live the Luddites | Front Porch Republic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Siarlys Jenkins</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-22842</link>
		<dc:creator>Siarlys Jenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-22842</guid>
		<description>Thanks Hans!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Hans!</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan F.</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-22566</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-22566</guid>
		<description>I find it interesting that the last stand of the Luddite is professional sports.  We get down right prudish when it comes to performance enhancing items for body or equipment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that the last stand of the Luddite is professional sports.  We get down right prudish when it comes to performance enhancing items for body or equipment.</p>
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		<title>By: Septeus7</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-22423</link>
		<dc:creator>Septeus7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-22423</guid>
		<description>Quote from Jason Peters : “A Luddite is someone who, in the first place, doesn’t approve of policies that impoverish the many to enrich the few. He regards labor not as evil but as necessary. He is someone who knows too well that introducing into labor a labor-saving device doesn’t so much reduce labor as evict laborers, and he dislikes being evicted by such devices. You might even say he is someone impertinent enough to prefer people to machines.”

No, that is not a Luddite. A Luddite was a dupe of Jeremy Bentham’s satanic intelligence operations that redirected peasant sentiment against imperialism into an anti-republican anarchist controlled opposition that was easily discredited and allow the principled opposition to the British system of imperialist capitalism to be ignored and vilified as machine smashers and vandals.    

Anyone with any knowledge of science knows that real technology doesn’t replace labor enhances it and it does not evict laborer in a properly organized economy.  It human political decisions that evicted craftsmen and the farmers. No machine has or will ever evict any worker from his job because the organization of labor is a not subject of machines but human political economy. 

Rather than practicing a form of idolatry by attacking perfectly useful machines people must attack the corruption of the oligarchs that takes the most human characteristic of creativity and turns it against the common good and making it a means of selfish gain at the cost of the good. 

The power lies with man not with machines and any movement that denies this as Luddites do is Idolatry and Satanism. 
Luddites are fundamentally anti-human as the claim the power of a machine can replace the world of the human being the creators of that machine which is not true. Ironically, the Post-Humanist promoting cybernetics and other pseudoscience and post-human futures are derived from Luddite philosophy that assumes that machines are of higher order human beings and thus have the power to replace human labor and reason Luddites believe this false doctrine is because it was synthetically created belief that reflected Bentham’s mechanistic view of man as a machine. 

The Luddite reductionist view of labor as fixed in mode derives from the man is machine ideology thus to protect human culture as reduced to the efforts of the human machine it can be threaten a superior machine. But how can this view every defeat the any culture of de-humanization when it is already such a degraded view of man? After all if a man is merely a machine then why shouldn’t he replaced by a better one ala trans-humanism?  

The rest of Jason Peters essay is pure confusion complaining about digital gadgets as high technology when it isn’t. Jason Peter quotes Wendel Berry are saying technology should be limited to “but to intensify production, improve maintenance, increase care and skill, and widen the margins of leisure, pleasure, and community life.” 

Unfortunately, that isn’t Luddite at all but what American system economist from Franklin on defined as “technology.”
 
You have confused gadgetry with technology. Technology is a machine that is an application of a universal physical principle changes man’s capacity to work needed for increase potential population density. Gadget’s are devices use technology but may or may not increase potential population density because they are concern with the speed of human action not it’s mode or character. Technology is about changing in principle what can be done. 

The reason you don’t get excited about this year’s newest gadgets is because they aren’t technology at all but rather repetition of tasks already being done by slightly slower machines.

I’ll now list some examples of real technology advances would look like and that probably won’t be built or developed precisely because our society is so dominated by Luddite/Malthusian ideas about man.

Imagine if you where a teacher of European history rather simply being able to talk to students about the City of Florence in Italy and show a few photographs that you could with for the cost of today’s usual field trip of about 3-4 hours of driving times that you could show them the actual city of Florence? Wouldn’t you be excited about a technology let’s just about anyone travel a 1000 miles in the time today’s primitive cave-man like vehicles limited to 100 miles?  

How about a technology about the trailer of a tuck that can power about 25,000 homes and desalinate and cleans water? You could drive these into African village get these people hooked and keep them from dying water born diseases.

How about turn-key hospitals and schools? 

How about a vertical farm that allows a city block to grow its organic food in the cleanest possible environment without regard to seasons?

How about a vertical city build of multiple platforms about a kilometer high providing housing for 100k people, jobs, and integrated community with gardens and parks on every platform. It would schools, shops, and everything you would need from cradle to grave in this Sky Village. Talk about close community.   

How about a manmade Great Lake in the Sahara along aside manmade tropical forests? 

How about Domed Cities on the Moon? 

Those are example of what real technological progress would have looked like and it&#039;s about increasing human capacity to live. We haven&#039;t had any real technology improvements since the 1968ers.  

You’ve never seen or lived in society that was producing new cities and doing these “impossible” projects because you are a boomer or worse. Earlier generation were more human and that is kind of future they planned but the Boomer decided sex, drugs, rock-n-roll, mother earth, easy money, free trade, cheap toys, self-righteous Luddite Malthusian romanticism and doing what “felt good” was more important building the future for their children and giving them culture that believed in the creative human spirit or the imago viva dei.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote from Jason Peters : “A Luddite is someone who, in the first place, doesn’t approve of policies that impoverish the many to enrich the few. He regards labor not as evil but as necessary. He is someone who knows too well that introducing into labor a labor-saving device doesn’t so much reduce labor as evict laborers, and he dislikes being evicted by such devices. You might even say he is someone impertinent enough to prefer people to machines.”</p>
<p>No, that is not a Luddite. A Luddite was a dupe of Jeremy Bentham’s satanic intelligence operations that redirected peasant sentiment against imperialism into an anti-republican anarchist controlled opposition that was easily discredited and allow the principled opposition to the British system of imperialist capitalism to be ignored and vilified as machine smashers and vandals.    </p>
<p>Anyone with any knowledge of science knows that real technology doesn’t replace labor enhances it and it does not evict laborer in a properly organized economy.  It human political decisions that evicted craftsmen and the farmers. No machine has or will ever evict any worker from his job because the organization of labor is a not subject of machines but human political economy. </p>
<p>Rather than practicing a form of idolatry by attacking perfectly useful machines people must attack the corruption of the oligarchs that takes the most human characteristic of creativity and turns it against the common good and making it a means of selfish gain at the cost of the good. </p>
<p>The power lies with man not with machines and any movement that denies this as Luddites do is Idolatry and Satanism.<br />
Luddites are fundamentally anti-human as the claim the power of a machine can replace the world of the human being the creators of that machine which is not true. Ironically, the Post-Humanist promoting cybernetics and other pseudoscience and post-human futures are derived from Luddite philosophy that assumes that machines are of higher order human beings and thus have the power to replace human labor and reason Luddites believe this false doctrine is because it was synthetically created belief that reflected Bentham’s mechanistic view of man as a machine. </p>
<p>The Luddite reductionist view of labor as fixed in mode derives from the man is machine ideology thus to protect human culture as reduced to the efforts of the human machine it can be threaten a superior machine. But how can this view every defeat the any culture of de-humanization when it is already such a degraded view of man? After all if a man is merely a machine then why shouldn’t he replaced by a better one ala trans-humanism?  </p>
<p>The rest of Jason Peters essay is pure confusion complaining about digital gadgets as high technology when it isn’t. Jason Peter quotes Wendel Berry are saying technology should be limited to “but to intensify production, improve maintenance, increase care and skill, and widen the margins of leisure, pleasure, and community life.” </p>
<p>Unfortunately, that isn’t Luddite at all but what American system economist from Franklin on defined as “technology.”</p>
<p>You have confused gadgetry with technology. Technology is a machine that is an application of a universal physical principle changes man’s capacity to work needed for increase potential population density. Gadget’s are devices use technology but may or may not increase potential population density because they are concern with the speed of human action not it’s mode or character. Technology is about changing in principle what can be done. </p>
<p>The reason you don’t get excited about this year’s newest gadgets is because they aren’t technology at all but rather repetition of tasks already being done by slightly slower machines.</p>
<p>I’ll now list some examples of real technology advances would look like and that probably won’t be built or developed precisely because our society is so dominated by Luddite/Malthusian ideas about man.</p>
<p>Imagine if you where a teacher of European history rather simply being able to talk to students about the City of Florence in Italy and show a few photographs that you could with for the cost of today’s usual field trip of about 3-4 hours of driving times that you could show them the actual city of Florence? Wouldn’t you be excited about a technology let’s just about anyone travel a 1000 miles in the time today’s primitive cave-man like vehicles limited to 100 miles?  </p>
<p>How about a technology about the trailer of a tuck that can power about 25,000 homes and desalinate and cleans water? You could drive these into African village get these people hooked and keep them from dying water born diseases.</p>
<p>How about turn-key hospitals and schools? </p>
<p>How about a vertical farm that allows a city block to grow its organic food in the cleanest possible environment without regard to seasons?</p>
<p>How about a vertical city build of multiple platforms about a kilometer high providing housing for 100k people, jobs, and integrated community with gardens and parks on every platform. It would schools, shops, and everything you would need from cradle to grave in this Sky Village. Talk about close community.   </p>
<p>How about a manmade Great Lake in the Sahara along aside manmade tropical forests? </p>
<p>How about Domed Cities on the Moon? </p>
<p>Those are example of what real technological progress would have looked like and it&#8217;s about increasing human capacity to live. We haven&#8217;t had any real technology improvements since the 1968ers.  </p>
<p>You’ve never seen or lived in society that was producing new cities and doing these “impossible” projects because you are a boomer or worse. Earlier generation were more human and that is kind of future they planned but the Boomer decided sex, drugs, rock-n-roll, mother earth, easy money, free trade, cheap toys, self-righteous Luddite Malthusian romanticism and doing what “felt good” was more important building the future for their children and giving them culture that believed in the creative human spirit or the imago viva dei.</p>
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		<title>By: Hans Noeldner</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-22304</link>
		<dc:creator>Hans Noeldner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-22304</guid>
		<description>Siarlys

www.amishlawnmower.com

Now made by an Amish businessman, this mower - with some variations - has been made for about 50 years under a number of brand names - Yard Man, Scotts, Sears, Agri-Fab.  It&#039;s excellent.  Enough iron to hold an edge.

This company also makes a decent push mower:

http://www.mclanemower.com/reelmowers.asp

You can also get mowers like this at eBay and yard sales.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Siarlys</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amishlawnmower.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.amishlawnmower.com</a></p>
<p>Now made by an Amish businessman, this mower &#8211; with some variations &#8211; has been made for about 50 years under a number of brand names &#8211; Yard Man, Scotts, Sears, Agri-Fab.  It&#8217;s excellent.  Enough iron to hold an edge.</p>
<p>This company also makes a decent push mower:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mclanemower.com/reelmowers.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.mclanemower.com/reelmowers.asp</a></p>
<p>You can also get mowers like this at eBay and yard sales.</p>
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		<title>By: Siarlys Jenkins</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-22269</link>
		<dc:creator>Siarlys Jenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-22269</guid>
		<description>Good point Hans. Most people claim to need more exercise and to be thinking about going on a weight loss program. A simple rake will get more leaves, it will give the raker more exercise, it will make less racket, it removes the illusion that the leaves are going to &quot;vanish,&quot; uses less electrical energy... I&#039;ve never even used a power mower. Anyone know who still makes the old rotary kind? Sure saves money on gym membership. We have to get in focus that the Kung tribe in the Kalahari Desert spends about 19 hours a week providing themselves with food, clothing and shelter -- in the dry season. We should all have such leisure time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point Hans. Most people claim to need more exercise and to be thinking about going on a weight loss program. A simple rake will get more leaves, it will give the raker more exercise, it will make less racket, it removes the illusion that the leaves are going to &#8220;vanish,&#8221; uses less electrical energy&#8230; I&#8217;ve never even used a power mower. Anyone know who still makes the old rotary kind? Sure saves money on gym membership. We have to get in focus that the Kung tribe in the Kalahari Desert spends about 19 hours a week providing themselves with food, clothing and shelter &#8212; in the dry season. We should all have such leisure time.</p>
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		<title>By: Hans Noeldner</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-22245</link>
		<dc:creator>Hans Noeldner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-22245</guid>
		<description>Let us begin by smashing leaf blowers...and then recycling the materials, of course!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let us begin by smashing leaf blowers&#8230;and then recycling the materials, of course!</p>
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		<title>By: Siarlys Jenkins</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-22198</link>
		<dc:creator>Siarlys Jenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-22198</guid>
		<description>Jason definitely makes more sense than Ryan Davidson. I can&#039;t say the original Luddites add up to a program I would get behind today, but they have a definite emotional appeal, for good reason, and if I were them then, I expect I would have responded in about the same way. We are at a point in history when we need to shatter all traditional blocs of &quot;right&quot; and &quot;left&quot; which Jason has already done. Free enterprise is fine as long as each citizen has a roughly equal stake in the community, but when a few citizen&#039;s become huge in wealth and power, then claim that their &quot;liberty&quot; is being infringed by their employees forming unions or legislatures imposing minimum wage laws, it all gets turned on its head. Most of those industrialists who wanted the Luddites hanged and transported were members of the Liberal party, and Ronald Reagan would have been philosophically at home with them. So, we all know Marxism has failed to either liberate the working class or lead us all into a rosy utopia, we all know that smashing machines wholesale doesn&#039;t improve our quality of life, and we really don&#039;t want every new technology anyone might come up with shoved down our throats as &quot;progress.&quot; Jason knows technology has its uses: he&#039;s posting this on the internet, for God&#039;s sake.

The root problem though is, when a new technology emerges, it benefits a small portion of the community at the expense of everyone else, and it empowers a small number over everyone else. Life doesn&#039;t slow down so each of us may philosophically consider what that means for me and us, and do I or we really want it at all? Now all we have to do is figure out, how do we establish some sort of communitarian framework that also respects individual liberty? I need to know which machines I may smash with impunity. Or, I think Jason is a bit of a rational anarchist, along the lines of Professor Bernardo De La Paz in Robert A. Heinlein&#039;s &lt;i&gt;The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress&lt;/i&gt;. Fifth International anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason definitely makes more sense than Ryan Davidson. I can&#8217;t say the original Luddites add up to a program I would get behind today, but they have a definite emotional appeal, for good reason, and if I were them then, I expect I would have responded in about the same way. We are at a point in history when we need to shatter all traditional blocs of &#8220;right&#8221; and &#8220;left&#8221; which Jason has already done. Free enterprise is fine as long as each citizen has a roughly equal stake in the community, but when a few citizen&#8217;s become huge in wealth and power, then claim that their &#8220;liberty&#8221; is being infringed by their employees forming unions or legislatures imposing minimum wage laws, it all gets turned on its head. Most of those industrialists who wanted the Luddites hanged and transported were members of the Liberal party, and Ronald Reagan would have been philosophically at home with them. So, we all know Marxism has failed to either liberate the working class or lead us all into a rosy utopia, we all know that smashing machines wholesale doesn&#8217;t improve our quality of life, and we really don&#8217;t want every new technology anyone might come up with shoved down our throats as &#8220;progress.&#8221; Jason knows technology has its uses: he&#8217;s posting this on the internet, for God&#8217;s sake.</p>
<p>The root problem though is, when a new technology emerges, it benefits a small portion of the community at the expense of everyone else, and it empowers a small number over everyone else. Life doesn&#8217;t slow down so each of us may philosophically consider what that means for me and us, and do I or we really want it at all? Now all we have to do is figure out, how do we establish some sort of communitarian framework that also respects individual liberty? I need to know which machines I may smash with impunity. Or, I think Jason is a bit of a rational anarchist, along the lines of Professor Bernardo De La Paz in Robert A. Heinlein&#8217;s <i>The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress</i>. Fifth International anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: Hans Noeldner</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-22004</link>
		<dc:creator>Hans Noeldner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-22004</guid>
		<description>Hi Jason:

Excellent essay! This morning, having just read the most recent cheerful installment at The Automatic Earth, my mind began running in a groove similar to yours.  Here is what I wrote before I read your piece:

Willful Ignorance
-----------------
Ask yourself why so many of us expect &quot;the government&quot; to compensate for jobs lost to increases in labor productivity (i.e. output of a good or service per unit input of labor.)  Ask yourself how it is possible we CELEBRATE increases in labor productivity even as we cringe at rising unemployment.  Just how stupid are we?

And what about those of us who believe the biophysical limitations of Earth all but guarantee that Mankind&#039;s consumption of resources will soon shrink, and shrink dramatically?  Who have concluded from the recent financial crisis that we have substantially exceeded our powers to vacuum ever-more credit from the future in order to stimulate ever-higher consumption in the present?  Who recognize that marginal increases in material consumption throughout much of the industrialized world often have a NEGATIVE correlation with human well-being?

Is there any chance that we-the-consumers and we-the-investors will be willing to shift our fidelities from the lowest prices and highest rates of return to intentional, meaningful, fulfilling employment for one-another…and for ourselves?  Doesn&#039;t our love affair with the automobile prove that we don&#039;t even want to employ our own legs?

What shall become of human employment in a future of limits?  If the means of production are not widely held, what will be the fate of those who own little or none of it?  Is a Darwinian economic religion compatible with love for one another?   And even if all these other factors could be overcome, are our human natures suited for life without needful labor?

Hans Noeldner</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jason:</p>
<p>Excellent essay! This morning, having just read the most recent cheerful installment at The Automatic Earth, my mind began running in a groove similar to yours.  Here is what I wrote before I read your piece:</p>
<p>Willful Ignorance<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
Ask yourself why so many of us expect &#8220;the government&#8221; to compensate for jobs lost to increases in labor productivity (i.e. output of a good or service per unit input of labor.)  Ask yourself how it is possible we CELEBRATE increases in labor productivity even as we cringe at rising unemployment.  Just how stupid are we?</p>
<p>And what about those of us who believe the biophysical limitations of Earth all but guarantee that Mankind&#8217;s consumption of resources will soon shrink, and shrink dramatically?  Who have concluded from the recent financial crisis that we have substantially exceeded our powers to vacuum ever-more credit from the future in order to stimulate ever-higher consumption in the present?  Who recognize that marginal increases in material consumption throughout much of the industrialized world often have a NEGATIVE correlation with human well-being?</p>
<p>Is there any chance that we-the-consumers and we-the-investors will be willing to shift our fidelities from the lowest prices and highest rates of return to intentional, meaningful, fulfilling employment for one-another…and for ourselves?  Doesn&#8217;t our love affair with the automobile prove that we don&#8217;t even want to employ our own legs?</p>
<p>What shall become of human employment in a future of limits?  If the means of production are not widely held, what will be the fate of those who own little or none of it?  Is a Darwinian economic religion compatible with love for one another?   And even if all these other factors could be overcome, are our human natures suited for life without needful labor?</p>
<p>Hans Noeldner</p>
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		<title>By: eutychus</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-22003</link>
		<dc:creator>eutychus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-22003</guid>
		<description>Peters&#039; observations are all bang on. i know he is right. my head knows he is right, but his words have no power over my soul which is still deathly ill. until i can&#039;t go into a supermarket and toss enough food in my grocery basket for the week and be able to pay for it while contributing almost nothing to mankind i am not likely to change. i&#039;ll log onto facebook in the vain hope that &lt;i&gt;someone or something&lt;/i&gt; out there will give my life meaning and purpose. i&#039;ll watch the world series of poker excited by the possibility that the game might prove that someone up there is still dealing the cards... and that maybe one day i might catch a couple of aces. i am a broken-hearted addict, hopelessly enslaved to technologies designed to &quot;set me free&quot;. i sit down by the rivers of Babylon and weep. i am a man abandoned by his God. i eat, drink and try to be merry because... i am already dead. i wait and i wait for the stone to be rolled away...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peters&#8217; observations are all bang on. i know he is right. my head knows he is right, but his words have no power over my soul which is still deathly ill. until i can&#8217;t go into a supermarket and toss enough food in my grocery basket for the week and be able to pay for it while contributing almost nothing to mankind i am not likely to change. i&#8217;ll log onto facebook in the vain hope that <i>someone or something</i> out there will give my life meaning and purpose. i&#8217;ll watch the world series of poker excited by the possibility that the game might prove that someone up there is still dealing the cards&#8230; and that maybe one day i might catch a couple of aces. i am a broken-hearted addict, hopelessly enslaved to technologies designed to &#8220;set me free&#8221;. i sit down by the rivers of Babylon and weep. i am a man abandoned by his God. i eat, drink and try to be merry because&#8230; i am already dead. i wait and i wait for the stone to be rolled away&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Davidson</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-21873</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-21873</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;rex&lt;/b&gt;, you&#039;re assuming that people have power to begin with which can only be &quot;taken&quot; consensually. Which is basically saying that we all have certain inalienable rights. I really can&#039;t see much difference between the two.

Before the modern period, the idea that individuals have power of their own was unheard of. Power flowed from the sovereign to the people, not the people to the sovereign. Kings had power not because it was ceded to them by the people, but because they were ordained by God, the source of all authority. Today, the presumption is that anything not prohibited by the government is permitted. Then, the presumption was that anything not permitted by the crown remained the prerogative of the crown.  The Tenth Amendment is actually a pretty radical concept, historically speaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>rex</b>, you&#8217;re assuming that people have power to begin with which can only be &#8220;taken&#8221; consensually. Which is basically saying that we all have certain inalienable rights. I really can&#8217;t see much difference between the two.</p>
<p>Before the modern period, the idea that individuals have power of their own was unheard of. Power flowed from the sovereign to the people, not the people to the sovereign. Kings had power not because it was ceded to them by the people, but because they were ordained by God, the source of all authority. Today, the presumption is that anything not prohibited by the government is permitted. Then, the presumption was that anything not permitted by the crown remained the prerogative of the crown.  The Tenth Amendment is actually a pretty radical concept, historically speaking.</p>
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		<title>By: rex</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-21831</link>
		<dc:creator>rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-21831</guid>
		<description>Ryan, the there is difference between power ceded and power taken. 
Power ceded creates rights, power taken does not. Rights are contrived outside of a consensual power exchange. There is nothing atomistic about it. Individuals, families, communities, etc. can cede power, or power can wrested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan, the there is difference between power ceded and power taken.<br />
Power ceded creates rights, power taken does not. Rights are contrived outside of a consensual power exchange. There is nothing atomistic about it. Individuals, families, communities, etc. can cede power, or power can wrested.</p>
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		<title>By: pb</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-21621</link>
		<dc:creator>pb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-21621</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;As you say, it’s a question of resources, and like it or not, non-industrial agriculture can only support a fraction of the population that industrial agriculture can.&lt;/i&gt;

Disputable. A point made by those who defend the continued existence of industrial agriculture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>As you say, it’s a question of resources, and like it or not, non-industrial agriculture can only support a fraction of the population that industrial agriculture can.</i></p>
<p>Disputable. A point made by those who defend the continued existence of industrial agriculture.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Davidson</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-21595</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-21595</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Jason&lt;/b&gt;, I completely agree with your assessment of our near and intermediate-term future. But I also believe that unless the global population falls by at least 75%--which while unthinkable may not be impossible--that whatever society emerges from the other side will still be industrialized. As you say, it&#039;s a question of resources, and like it or not, non-industrial agriculture can only support a fraction of the population that industrial agriculture can. Life is going to be harder in the future, and living standards will fall, sure. But the idea that a significant percentage of a global population in excess of a billion can engage in agriculture does strikes me as impossible. As such, I believe that we need to adjust our concept of what the Good Life looks like to take a certain degree, even a large degree of industrialization into account. Are we sending too many people to get useless college degrees? Absolutely. Does our society have an adverse reaction to actual work? Definitely. Is the answer to turn our backs on modern society and go back to the farm? No.

Besides, the death of three-quarters of the population isn&#039;t exactly the kind of dislocation you can adequately plan for. It&#039;s the end of the f*cking world. 

But barring utter catastrophe, I think we can do better than we&#039;ve done. I think it&#039;s possible to have vibrant communities. But I don&#039;t think we need to turn our backs on three centuries of history to do so, and on the contrary, that not dealing with the history is an active obstacle to any such pursuits because it fails to take into account the physical and logistical realities of our time. 

&lt;b&gt;rex&lt;/b&gt;, ironically, you&#039;re &lt;i&gt;still&lt;/i&gt; operating from a rights-based framework. You&#039;re still treating people as atomistic, as essentially unconnected, as not being subject to any obligations imposed on them involuntarily. You view the state as a creation of the people, who collectively cede their rights to create Leviathan. Expressing it in terms of power clarifies things a bit--Nietzsche being the ultimate expression of modernism, after a fashion--but doesn&#039;t change the underlying ontology. 

This is a source of confusion for me around here, because while so many people bag on modernity as bad for individual liberty, the very idea of individual liberty is a decidedly modern trope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Jason</b>, I completely agree with your assessment of our near and intermediate-term future. But I also believe that unless the global population falls by at least 75%&#8211;which while unthinkable may not be impossible&#8211;that whatever society emerges from the other side will still be industrialized. As you say, it&#8217;s a question of resources, and like it or not, non-industrial agriculture can only support a fraction of the population that industrial agriculture can. Life is going to be harder in the future, and living standards will fall, sure. But the idea that a significant percentage of a global population in excess of a billion can engage in agriculture does strikes me as impossible. As such, I believe that we need to adjust our concept of what the Good Life looks like to take a certain degree, even a large degree of industrialization into account. Are we sending too many people to get useless college degrees? Absolutely. Does our society have an adverse reaction to actual work? Definitely. Is the answer to turn our backs on modern society and go back to the farm? No.</p>
<p>Besides, the death of three-quarters of the population isn&#8217;t exactly the kind of dislocation you can adequately plan for. It&#8217;s the end of the f*cking world. </p>
<p>But barring utter catastrophe, I think we can do better than we&#8217;ve done. I think it&#8217;s possible to have vibrant communities. But I don&#8217;t think we need to turn our backs on three centuries of history to do so, and on the contrary, that not dealing with the history is an active obstacle to any such pursuits because it fails to take into account the physical and logistical realities of our time. </p>
<p><b>rex</b>, ironically, you&#8217;re <i>still</i> operating from a rights-based framework. You&#8217;re still treating people as atomistic, as essentially unconnected, as not being subject to any obligations imposed on them involuntarily. You view the state as a creation of the people, who collectively cede their rights to create Leviathan. Expressing it in terms of power clarifies things a bit&#8211;Nietzsche being the ultimate expression of modernism, after a fashion&#8211;but doesn&#8217;t change the underlying ontology. </p>
<p>This is a source of confusion for me around here, because while so many people bag on modernity as bad for individual liberty, the very idea of individual liberty is a decidedly modern trope.</p>
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		<title>By: rex</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/long-live-the-luddites/#comment-21573</link>
		<dc:creator>rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6856#comment-21573</guid>
		<description>Ryan I agree with your rights ontology. Speaking - errr - writing - errr - key boarding as a reformed anarchist, rights only exist where power is ceded. Capitalists have no right to accrue capital other than those granted by the state. (Otherwise folks would just come and take it if they have the cajones.) 

The state has a fundamental obligation to the common good due to citizens ceding power to the state as protection of the common good. (Ryan, avoiding seeing rights and obligations as a duality is actually quite robust - Thank you.) In the case of the industrial age, I believe the state has failed in many obligations.  

Reducing (or enhancing?) this to the cowboy poet level: When otherwise good citizens take up arms against those protected by the state during a time of war, clearly something is amiss (AKA FUBAR). I am a geologist by trade, so I cannot speak to human history other than what I read as recreation, but dang it, something was terribly wrong during the Luddite&#039;s run. These were tradesman and family men willing to pick-up PMDs (Pitchforks of Minor Destruction) to risk their lives for something greater that than themselves. I cannot relegate them to a dustbin without further study.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan I agree with your rights ontology. Speaking &#8211; errr &#8211; writing &#8211; errr &#8211; key boarding as a reformed anarchist, rights only exist where power is ceded. Capitalists have no right to accrue capital other than those granted by the state. (Otherwise folks would just come and take it if they have the cajones.) </p>
<p>The state has a fundamental obligation to the common good due to citizens ceding power to the state as protection of the common good. (Ryan, avoiding seeing rights and obligations as a duality is actually quite robust &#8211; Thank you.) In the case of the industrial age, I believe the state has failed in many obligations.  </p>
<p>Reducing (or enhancing?) this to the cowboy poet level: When otherwise good citizens take up arms against those protected by the state during a time of war, clearly something is amiss (AKA FUBAR). I am a geologist by trade, so I cannot speak to human history other than what I read as recreation, but dang it, something was terribly wrong during the Luddite&#8217;s run. These were tradesman and family men willing to pick-up PMDs (Pitchforks of Minor Destruction) to risk their lives for something greater that than themselves. I cannot relegate them to a dustbin without further study.</p>
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