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	<title>Comments on: Nobel Gestures</title>
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	<description>Place. Limits. Liberty.</description>
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		<title>By: D.W. Sabin</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18687</link>
		<dc:creator>D.W. Sabin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 17:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18687</guid>
		<description>Whoever introduced the word &quot;magnanimous&quot; into the discussion of this award is hereby put on notice that the word has been mothballed and is out there in the high plains of Alberta bleaching in the cold sunshine next to a few retired war planes that are casually scavenged as the spirit moves.

Until yesterday, I was unaware that Norway is a home to comedy.

One does have to admit that it is a far better world now that the Vikings running amok in the far seas has been replaced by a few technocrats dispensing lofty awards with the charming conceit of actually thinking they will have anything whatsoever to do with the outcome of the American Suicide Watch.

Next Year, perhaps they shall solemnly dispense the award to Dr. Kervorkian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoever introduced the word &#8220;magnanimous&#8221; into the discussion of this award is hereby put on notice that the word has been mothballed and is out there in the high plains of Alberta bleaching in the cold sunshine next to a few retired war planes that are casually scavenged as the spirit moves.</p>
<p>Until yesterday, I was unaware that Norway is a home to comedy.</p>
<p>One does have to admit that it is a far better world now that the Vikings running amok in the far seas has been replaced by a few technocrats dispensing lofty awards with the charming conceit of actually thinking they will have anything whatsoever to do with the outcome of the American Suicide Watch.</p>
<p>Next Year, perhaps they shall solemnly dispense the award to Dr. Kervorkian.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18657</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18657</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a sad reflection that I should be thinking the Obama Peace Award is hype for hype!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a sad reflection that I should be thinking the Obama Peace Award is hype for hype!</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Cheeks</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18562</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Cheeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18562</guid>
		<description>McIntyre, consider yourself on report. We expect a little more &quot;diversity&quot; from the academic crowd, not to mention a severely dulled sense of humor! 
You and yours will have rooms in the Cave of Kumbaya...bring your own instrument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McIntyre, consider yourself on report. We expect a little more &#8220;diversity&#8221; from the academic crowd, not to mention a severely dulled sense of humor!<br />
You and yours will have rooms in the Cave of Kumbaya&#8230;bring your own instrument.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Lacy</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18553</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Lacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18553</guid>
		<description>SteveK: I know the rest so far as dystopian fiction writers are concerned.  But I have no idea what that would like in reality.  I can say, however, that I have no fear of a conservative, limited &quot;one-world government&quot;---no logical philosophical supposition that it can&#039;t work.  I fear that no more than I fear the ability of my neighborhood association&#039;s petty tyrants to make my life miserable. - TL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SteveK: I know the rest so far as dystopian fiction writers are concerned.  But I have no idea what that would like in reality.  I can say, however, that I have no fear of a conservative, limited &#8220;one-world government&#8221;&#8212;no logical philosophical supposition that it can&#8217;t work.  I fear that no more than I fear the ability of my neighborhood association&#8217;s petty tyrants to make my life miserable. &#8211; TL</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Lacy</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18551</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Lacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18551</guid>
		<description>Patrick,

I&#039;m surprised at your pessimism.  You&#039;re well aware that a great many women and men of the Christian world choose to chase after ideals that appear to be pipe dreams to others---that are unreality in light of the current world: minimization of sin, converting the world, making contemplatives out of people of all shapes and sizes, living up to the Beatitudes, etc.  How is *pursuing* the notion of world peace under the guise of cosmopolitanism any less utopian, or any less real, than the everyday goals of serious Christians---a number of whom are FPR contributors?  It&#039;s one thing to be and think locally, and another to misunderestimate (hah!--keeping it light) the universal ideals of your brethren who seek common understanding across the urban-rural, nation-state divide.  This borders on fantasizing about the local.  

Finally, I think you&#039;ll find that a large percentage of cosmopolitan peace-seekers also want to see the dismantling of the M-I complex.  Perhaps we all feel complicit in the construction of that sorry edifice?

Peace,

Tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m surprised at your pessimism.  You&#8217;re well aware that a great many women and men of the Christian world choose to chase after ideals that appear to be pipe dreams to others&#8212;that are unreality in light of the current world: minimization of sin, converting the world, making contemplatives out of people of all shapes and sizes, living up to the Beatitudes, etc.  How is *pursuing* the notion of world peace under the guise of cosmopolitanism any less utopian, or any less real, than the everyday goals of serious Christians&#8212;a number of whom are FPR contributors?  It&#8217;s one thing to be and think locally, and another to misunderestimate (hah!&#8211;keeping it light) the universal ideals of your brethren who seek common understanding across the urban-rural, nation-state divide.  This borders on fantasizing about the local.  </p>
<p>Finally, I think you&#8217;ll find that a large percentage of cosmopolitan peace-seekers also want to see the dismantling of the M-I complex.  Perhaps we all feel complicit in the construction of that sorry edifice?</p>
<p>Peace,</p>
<p>Tim</p>
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		<title>By: pb</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18549</link>
		<dc:creator>pb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18549</guid>
		<description>My charitable take on this is that the Nobel committee had the hubris to think their award could somehow steer Obama away from the McChrystalline notion that there’s a military solution to the problems in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

As if the alternative plan is less of a military solution. Obama is committed to a military solution either way, unless he&#039;s contemplating a complete withdrawal. McChrystal isn&#039;t the only one to blame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My charitable take on this is that the Nobel committee had the hubris to think their award could somehow steer Obama away from the McChrystalline notion that there’s a military solution to the problems in Afghanistan and Pakistan.</p>
<p>As if the alternative plan is less of a military solution. Obama is committed to a military solution either way, unless he&#8217;s contemplating a complete withdrawal. McChrystal isn&#8217;t the only one to blame.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve K.</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18544</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18544</guid>
		<description>A government big enough to give you one-world cosmopolitan peace... I&#039;m sure you know the rest Tim?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A government big enough to give you one-world cosmopolitan peace&#8230; I&#8217;m sure you know the rest Tim?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick J. Deneen</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18543</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick J. Deneen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18543</guid>
		<description>The problem of one-world cosmopolitan peace is that it&#039;s not based on reality.  To the extent it seems real, it&#039;s based on the military-industrial complex (one of the points of this compressed post.).  Life on the porch is doubtlessly easier in some respects because of the m-i complex, but it is not dependent upon it.  It existed before its rise, and will exist after its demise.  Among other things, tobacco and bourbon might have to be locally grown and made - which is fine by me.  

People on the Porch can honestly call for the reduction if not outright disassembling of the m-i complex knowing the porch will persist, because it&#039;s real; one-world cosmopolitans can only fantasize about the apotheosis by overlooking their complicity in supporting war and big biz.  They should be guilty, but much guiltier than they allow themselves to be - hence why there is such a great need to avoid facing facts by handing out prizes to people like O.  Big diff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem of one-world cosmopolitan peace is that it&#8217;s not based on reality.  To the extent it seems real, it&#8217;s based on the military-industrial complex (one of the points of this compressed post.).  Life on the porch is doubtlessly easier in some respects because of the m-i complex, but it is not dependent upon it.  It existed before its rise, and will exist after its demise.  Among other things, tobacco and bourbon might have to be locally grown and made &#8211; which is fine by me.  </p>
<p>People on the Porch can honestly call for the reduction if not outright disassembling of the m-i complex knowing the porch will persist, because it&#8217;s real; one-world cosmopolitans can only fantasize about the apotheosis by overlooking their complicity in supporting war and big biz.  They should be guilty, but much guiltier than they allow themselves to be &#8211; hence why there is such a great need to avoid facing facts by handing out prizes to people like O.  Big diff.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Lacy</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18539</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Lacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18539</guid>
		<description>The problem with your post, despite its superficial look at Oslo&#039;s motivations, is that it is one removed from John Médaille&#039;s short-sighted &quot;small man&quot; comment.

As for Oslo&#039;s motivations---namely Alfred Nobel, oil wealth---isn&#039;t it possible that Oslovians/Norwegians might act out of guilt over the problems with their wealth?  And if they are feeling guilty, isn&#039;t it appropriate that they put their health, wealth, and inconsistent place in the international community to good use?

Also, why the harsh words for one-world cosmopolitan peace?  How is that unrelated to your ability to sit on a front porch, with tasty bourbon and an aromatic pipe, and think through the problems of one&#039;s neighborhood, the weather, and how the boy scouts are going to make it through their camping trip?  Indeed, one-world cosmopolitan peace insures your ability to do that without worrying about erratic corn and barley prices, ecological imbalances that produce lyme disease or bee shortages, and affordable tobacco? - TL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with your post, despite its superficial look at Oslo&#8217;s motivations, is that it is one removed from John Médaille&#8217;s short-sighted &#8220;small man&#8221; comment.</p>
<p>As for Oslo&#8217;s motivations&#8212;namely Alfred Nobel, oil wealth&#8212;isn&#8217;t it possible that Oslovians/Norwegians might act out of guilt over the problems with their wealth?  And if they are feeling guilty, isn&#8217;t it appropriate that they put their health, wealth, and inconsistent place in the international community to good use?</p>
<p>Also, why the harsh words for one-world cosmopolitan peace?  How is that unrelated to your ability to sit on a front porch, with tasty bourbon and an aromatic pipe, and think through the problems of one&#8217;s neighborhood, the weather, and how the boy scouts are going to make it through their camping trip?  Indeed, one-world cosmopolitan peace insures your ability to do that without worrying about erratic corn and barley prices, ecological imbalances that produce lyme disease or bee shortages, and affordable tobacco? &#8211; TL</p>
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		<title>By: ken mcintyre</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18538</link>
		<dc:creator>ken mcintyre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18538</guid>
		<description>I hear that the Messiah-in-Chief has just been named the NFL MVP for the 2010 season, he’s just been awarded the gold medal in the giant slalom in the upcoming Vancouver Olympic games, he’s been given a Pulitzer in 2020 for his memoirs, he has won the French Open in 2010 (he’s very good on clay), and is the first individual to have won by himself Lord Stanley’s Cup (which hereafter will be renamed Lord Obama’s Goblet).  There has, of course, been a waiver as to actual participation in any of these events granted to Obama because of his special meaning to the entire world.  

Indeed, as Aristotle put it in The Politics, ‘if there is one person…so pre-eminently superior in goodness that there can be no comparison between the goodness and political capacity which he shows…and what is shown by the rest, such a person…can longer be treated as part of the state…There can be no law which runs against men who are utterly superior to others…The only alternative left…is for all others to pay a willing obedience to the man of outstanding goodness.  Such men will accordingly be the permanent kings in their states.’  Oh, yes, I forgot to mention that the US Congress and the Supreme Court have willingly abdicated their positions to King Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear that the Messiah-in-Chief has just been named the NFL MVP for the 2010 season, he’s just been awarded the gold medal in the giant slalom in the upcoming Vancouver Olympic games, he’s been given a Pulitzer in 2020 for his memoirs, he has won the French Open in 2010 (he’s very good on clay), and is the first individual to have won by himself Lord Stanley’s Cup (which hereafter will be renamed Lord Obama’s Goblet).  There has, of course, been a waiver as to actual participation in any of these events granted to Obama because of his special meaning to the entire world.  </p>
<p>Indeed, as Aristotle put it in The Politics, ‘if there is one person…so pre-eminently superior in goodness that there can be no comparison between the goodness and political capacity which he shows…and what is shown by the rest, such a person…can longer be treated as part of the state…There can be no law which runs against men who are utterly superior to others…The only alternative left…is for all others to pay a willing obedience to the man of outstanding goodness.  Such men will accordingly be the permanent kings in their states.’  Oh, yes, I forgot to mention that the US Congress and the Supreme Court have willingly abdicated their positions to King Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick J. Deneen</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18528</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick J. Deneen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18528</guid>
		<description>Artie,
I agree pretty completely with your concluding remarks.  But isn&#039;t that what I was getting at in my post - which was not a critique of Obama, but of the motives of the Nobel committee?  

Yes, we engaged in some playful banter here in the comments - which I usually don&#039;t do, I guess because everything can be so serious here on the internets.  Sorry to have offended, but I got a few chuckles out of the exchange with the good Mr. Cheeks.  Not a bad way to start a morning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Artie,<br />
I agree pretty completely with your concluding remarks.  But isn&#8217;t that what I was getting at in my post &#8211; which was not a critique of Obama, but of the motives of the Nobel committee?  </p>
<p>Yes, we engaged in some playful banter here in the comments &#8211; which I usually don&#8217;t do, I guess because everything can be so serious here on the internets.  Sorry to have offended, but I got a few chuckles out of the exchange with the good Mr. Cheeks.  Not a bad way to start a morning.</p>
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		<title>By: Artie</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18527</link>
		<dc:creator>Artie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18527</guid>
		<description>If Obama had used his considerable oratorical skills and bully pulpit to actively solicit this award, I could understand a certain amount of bile from these quarters. He didn&#039;t ask for this. And yes, the sentient creatures of the world should rejoice that George W. Bush no longer occupies the Oval Office. No surprise there. But I&#039;m guessing by now Obama&#039;s asking &quot;Why me? Don&#039;t I have enough trouble appeasing the commentariat without this?&quot; 

My charitable take on this is that the Nobel committee had the hubris to think their award could somehow steer Obama away from the McChrystalline notion that there&#039;s a military solution to the problems in Afghanistan and Pakistan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Obama had used his considerable oratorical skills and bully pulpit to actively solicit this award, I could understand a certain amount of bile from these quarters. He didn&#8217;t ask for this. And yes, the sentient creatures of the world should rejoice that George W. Bush no longer occupies the Oval Office. No surprise there. But I&#8217;m guessing by now Obama&#8217;s asking &#8220;Why me? Don&#8217;t I have enough trouble appeasing the commentariat without this?&#8221; </p>
<p>My charitable take on this is that the Nobel committee had the hubris to think their award could somehow steer Obama away from the McChrystalline notion that there&#8217;s a military solution to the problems in Afghanistan and Pakistan.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick J. Deneen</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18526</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick J. Deneen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18526</guid>
		<description>P.S., I agree with &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2009/10/obamas-stunningly-undeserved-n.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rod Dreher&lt;/a&gt;, who writes that Obama received the award especially &quot;for not being George W. Bush.&quot;  I can drink to that.  

But, in the name of magnanimity, perhaps O. should thank W. in his Oslo acceptance speech.   &quot;Thank you, W., for making this moment possible...&quot;

Or maybe it will suffice for him to say, &quot;You &lt;em&gt;like &lt;/em&gt;me, you really really &lt;em&gt;like &lt;/em&gt;me....!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S., I agree with <a href="http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2009/10/obamas-stunningly-undeserved-n.html" rel="nofollow">Rod Dreher</a>, who writes that Obama received the award especially &#8220;for not being George W. Bush.&#8221;  I can drink to that.  </p>
<p>But, in the name of magnanimity, perhaps O. should thank W. in his Oslo acceptance speech.   &#8220;Thank you, W., for making this moment possible&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Or maybe it will suffice for him to say, &#8220;You <em>like </em>me, you really really <em>like </em>me&#8230;.!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick J. Deneen</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18525</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick J. Deneen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18525</guid>
		<description>Artie,
I wrote &quot;congratulations&quot; - that was sort of magnanimous.  But I&#039;m far from alone in thinking that the prize is not exactly a deserving reward for the achievements of this President.  On the Porch, you call &#039;em like you see &#039;em.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Artie,<br />
I wrote &#8220;congratulations&#8221; &#8211; that was sort of magnanimous.  But I&#8217;m far from alone in thinking that the prize is not exactly a deserving reward for the achievements of this President.  On the Porch, you call &#8216;em like you see &#8216;em.</p>
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		<title>By: Artie</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18524</link>
		<dc:creator>Artie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18524</guid>
		<description>Interesting. I would have expected a more magnanimous spirit from the front porch. The tone of these comments sounds much more like urban loft than front porch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. I would have expected a more magnanimous spirit from the front porch. The tone of these comments sounds much more like urban loft than front porch.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick J. Deneen</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/10/nobel-gestures/#comment-18521</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick J. Deneen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6501#comment-18521</guid>
		<description>Russell, 
Realize that we&#039;re both in a pretty low in Bob&#039;s rankings, and no-one can touch Sabin in the top spot.  Of course, I can&#039;t disagree with that particular ranking...

Bob,
&quot;guitars, banjos, fiddles, tobacco, books and booze&quot; - I think this must be what Aristotle thought were the requirements for eudaimonia...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russell,<br />
Realize that we&#8217;re both in a pretty low in Bob&#8217;s rankings, and no-one can touch Sabin in the top spot.  Of course, I can&#8217;t disagree with that particular ranking&#8230;</p>
<p>Bob,<br />
&#8220;guitars, banjos, fiddles, tobacco, books and booze&#8221; &#8211; I think this must be what Aristotle thought were the requirements for eudaimonia&#8230;</p>
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