Comments on: Perils of the Stationary State

By: Wessexman

Wessexman — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 08:11:18 +0000

Well as a very metaphysical sort of a person(I’m a Christian Platonist and follower of the Perennialism of the likes of Frithjof Schuon.) I will say that China has a long and rich spiritual, metaphysical and religious tradition despite the political situation which dwarfs the modern Wests(not the whole West, just the post-renaissance.) although modern China’s is obviously no better given its recent path. I think this musn’t be forgotten when discussing China’s history(or indeed India’s.), particularly among traditionalists and conservatives. It is one of those interesting areas where there is a tension for us more localised traditionalists between our spiritual-cultural(I’m assuming the discussion is about more spiritual/religious and orthodox traditionalists who can admire non-Christian spiritual systems.) values and our political and social ideals(India presents another example as in some ways does medieval Europe or Byzantium.).

By: Adam K. Webb

Adam K. Webb — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 12:04:36 +0000

Of course. The examination system did not arise until several centuries after Confucianism, for example. And what you say about most people living in self-contained villages is also true. But the enervating effects of the stationary state on elites is very real, too. The starkest difference between China and the rest of the world is that for a much larger proportion of its history (some two thirds) it has been politically unified. Any such inescapable large scale, with stratified institutions, leads to many of the tendencies discussed here.

By: Wessexman

Wessexman — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:34:15 +0000

Interesting article Adam. However as someone whose currently doing a unit on early china at uni, which is vast going from Neolithic to the Song dynasty, I’d advise caution when talking about Chinese history. Not only is there a lot of changes between periods but it does take a more indepth look to really make judgements and some of the ideas in the West are not necessarily correct. For instance Confucian teaching arose in the fractious Eastern Zhou period where there was a lot of fighting between states, a lot of change and indeed a lot of economic growth. Also it is probably correct that for much of Chinese history, like Indian, most have lived in relatively self-contained villages where the central gov’t held little sway.

By: D.W. Sabin

D.W. Sabin — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:55:31 +0000

It is interesting to me that we have taken a word like “growth” and used it to characterize what has become an increasingly artificial and consumptive paradigm. Just as those who win the wars get to write history, those who win the economic wars get to define the word “growth” as well as the word “value”. What exactly is the so called “growth economy” and why is it so prone to episodic revelations of there being “no there there”?

I love this notion of things being “too big to fail” when said bigness is comprised principally of a phantasm called a derivative…a kind of will o the wisp of investor psychology and complex mathematics. Freud as the New Mother Nature. Swell.

Not long ago, the leader of Singapore was on Charley Rose and he offered some very interesting commentary on China and our fears of her…irrational fears he thought but then, his characterizations of his nation were not quite the same as yours , here.

By: Cecelia

Cecelia — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 06:34:05 +0000

very good and interesting – would note that we can have no growth but still have development – that is – in a no growth environment we can still engage in efforts to enhance that which really matters – relationships, neighborliness, the arts, peace and all the other things that are REALLY important.

By: Carl Scott

Carl Scott — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:42:49 +0000

Interesting…on Singapore and China particularly. No time for more than kudos and thanks, Mr. Webb.

By: John Médaille

John Médaille — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:10:51 +0000

While the entrepreneurial spirit is celebrated, even mythologized, in America, it is honored more in the breach than in the observance. Our society is dominated by vast bureaucracies for whom the entrepreneur is more of an irritant than a help. When you do find an entrepreneur today, the odds are that he or she is a foreigner. Our B-schools train not entrepreneurs, but bureaucrats, technicians who fill a small role in vast machines. We are already Singapore, only not so well-run.

A bureaucracy depends on a bureau, and these bureaus together run everything or nearly. But that system is coming apart; the bureaus won’t be there to give employment to the students and control to the society. Soon they will be able to run nothing. We will be looking for different models.

By: T. Chan

T. Chan — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:13:25 +0000

“Suppose, as many predict, that oil gradually runs out over the next two generations”

This isn’t really an accurate explanation of peak oil. Often it’s the MSM that makes this mistake, so I’m somewhat surprised to see it repeated here, as it can serve to discredit an essay. But I did learn from the part about Singapore. Some talk about Singapore as if it is the ideal small polity.

By: Bruce Smith

Bruce Smith — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 13:09:31 +0000

Irrespective of what happens to growth there will still be the need for improved arbitration arrangements (democracy and ownership) to ensure greater inclusivity for individuals to influence the direction of their society. Our power of speech and reflection enables us to achieve this.

By: HappyAcres

HappyAcres — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 13:03:51 +0000

Help! I’m a victim of world-historical forces!

Everybody wants to rule the world, including meek guys on the front porch.