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	<title>Comments on: Why Us, God?</title>
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		<title>By: Tim Kuitems</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-76887</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Kuitems</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Oct 2010 17:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-76887</guid>
		<description>Thinking this past week about a world without pain. What a place that would be. Fit&#039;s with our naive attempts to grasp Heaven. Now consider for a moment brain tumors. From what I understand, often times there are no symptoms until the tumor(s) are quite large. Interesting. In other words, there is no PAIN until the tumor is quite large. I guess we could say that in a perfect world there is no tumors, disease, death, or pain. This is absolutely foreign to anything in the human experience we seem to be living. The construct becomes quite alien. Another inquiry, which is more &quot;realistic&quot; and valuable, is to look at pain and discomfort as a flashing red light. It&#039;s a warning signal, a attention grabber. Pain can shake you like nothing else. I guess this pushes the inquiry toward a view of pain that assumes that we can change things. Sometimes we can&#039;t, or sometimes it&#039;s not apparent what we can do, or perhaps what we CAN DO is only a small step, and the pain remains.

I don&#039;t have all the answers, but to me, any discussion about theodicy is a discussion about pain, and God&#039;s intentions and use of pain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thinking this past week about a world without pain. What a place that would be. Fit&#8217;s with our naive attempts to grasp Heaven. Now consider for a moment brain tumors. From what I understand, often times there are no symptoms until the tumor(s) are quite large. Interesting. In other words, there is no PAIN until the tumor is quite large. I guess we could say that in a perfect world there is no tumors, disease, death, or pain. This is absolutely foreign to anything in the human experience we seem to be living. The construct becomes quite alien. Another inquiry, which is more &#8220;realistic&#8221; and valuable, is to look at pain and discomfort as a flashing red light. It&#8217;s a warning signal, a attention grabber. Pain can shake you like nothing else. I guess this pushes the inquiry toward a view of pain that assumes that we can change things. Sometimes we can&#8217;t, or sometimes it&#8217;s not apparent what we can do, or perhaps what we CAN DO is only a small step, and the pain remains.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have all the answers, but to me, any discussion about theodicy is a discussion about pain, and God&#8217;s intentions and use of pain.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Kuitems</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-76470</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Kuitems</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Oct 2010 01:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-76470</guid>
		<description>A little late to this article, I know. Theodicy arguments always catch my eye. Please allow me to posit a few ideas.

The tension of a tragedy seems to be, &quot;God where are you? God, how could you?&quot; My argument comes from the a priori belief in Christian theology. I believe the idea of God leaving things to chance is not the Christian belief. God DOES ALLOW seemingly bad things to happen. &quot;Allow&quot; is not the correct word. God &quot;controls and uses&quot; bad things, is probably closer to the truth of the matter. Not only bad things, but evil as well.

I think I can get here from Biblical example, but I want to skip the heavy-lifting of this for now. In brief, have a look at Job. God makes no apologies to Job for submitting his servant Job to a &quot;prove it&quot; dual between Him and Satan. In the beginning God and Satan are having dialog. Imagine that.

Moving on. OK, so what happens in a tragedy? Many horrible things, but often times mass amounts of people die, or suffer horribly. As I make the following point, I hope I do not trivialize the death of anybody, but my point is, do not ALL OF US die?

I&#039;ve only been close to a couple of deaths in my lifetime. Family members. It&#039;s sad and it&#039;s disturbing to a very deep spot inside you, but death typically has much pain associated with it. I remember the nurse making sure the morphine-drip was cranked-up on the day of my mother&#039;s passing.

How many times have you heard someone say, &quot;At least they went quickly.&quot; The point being, at least they did not struggle with excessive pain.

Great for them. What about the people we know who have struggled for years on end with a cancer battle? Perhaps then the issue is not so much early death, but PAIN.

I&#039;m with the perspective that whether a falling roof cracks my head open, I drown in the ocean, or I yield to cancer, my death will probably be painful.

So God designed the world with pain as part of man&#039;s condition. It seems to be a part of the condition of all the animals too.

Death will never be easy to watch. And observing it on a mass scale, as in Haiti, or the south Pacific, does have a different difficulty about it. But on the level of the individual who lost his life that day, it must be accepted that his day to die, was simply THAT day.

What is it about man that we feel something quite significant about constructing unique perspectives that stand as obstacles between us and God?

Questions such as: &quot;There&#039;s so much pain and suffering in the world, where is God?&quot; Seems like a thoughtful enough question. &quot;You get me through this one, God, and I will have an easier time following you.&quot;

Do we WORK AT such questions? Or is it rather that once erected, they serve us well as our conundrum for years on end?

What&#039;s the nature of what we classify as &quot;pain and suffering?&quot; There&#039;s much that can be said about this. I think we will find that man inflicts MORE pain and suffering upon one another, than God&#039;s natural disasters ever do.

If we must have a reason for God&#039;s natural disasters, how about this one. In the face of disaster, it suddenly becomes very clear that those that are able, need to tend to those in need, and we need to do it now.

It&#039;s quite easy to loose sight of loving and caring for one another when the fridge is full and the game is on. Not that love and care does not happen in these moments either, but I think you get my point.

If you are to this point. Thanks for reading my post. I look forward to learning more from the thoughtful words of this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little late to this article, I know. Theodicy arguments always catch my eye. Please allow me to posit a few ideas.</p>
<p>The tension of a tragedy seems to be, &#8220;God where are you? God, how could you?&#8221; My argument comes from the a priori belief in Christian theology. I believe the idea of God leaving things to chance is not the Christian belief. God DOES ALLOW seemingly bad things to happen. &#8220;Allow&#8221; is not the correct word. God &#8220;controls and uses&#8221; bad things, is probably closer to the truth of the matter. Not only bad things, but evil as well.</p>
<p>I think I can get here from Biblical example, but I want to skip the heavy-lifting of this for now. In brief, have a look at Job. God makes no apologies to Job for submitting his servant Job to a &#8220;prove it&#8221; dual between Him and Satan. In the beginning God and Satan are having dialog. Imagine that.</p>
<p>Moving on. OK, so what happens in a tragedy? Many horrible things, but often times mass amounts of people die, or suffer horribly. As I make the following point, I hope I do not trivialize the death of anybody, but my point is, do not ALL OF US die?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve only been close to a couple of deaths in my lifetime. Family members. It&#8217;s sad and it&#8217;s disturbing to a very deep spot inside you, but death typically has much pain associated with it. I remember the nurse making sure the morphine-drip was cranked-up on the day of my mother&#8217;s passing.</p>
<p>How many times have you heard someone say, &#8220;At least they went quickly.&#8221; The point being, at least they did not struggle with excessive pain.</p>
<p>Great for them. What about the people we know who have struggled for years on end with a cancer battle? Perhaps then the issue is not so much early death, but PAIN.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m with the perspective that whether a falling roof cracks my head open, I drown in the ocean, or I yield to cancer, my death will probably be painful.</p>
<p>So God designed the world with pain as part of man&#8217;s condition. It seems to be a part of the condition of all the animals too.</p>
<p>Death will never be easy to watch. And observing it on a mass scale, as in Haiti, or the south Pacific, does have a different difficulty about it. But on the level of the individual who lost his life that day, it must be accepted that his day to die, was simply THAT day.</p>
<p>What is it about man that we feel something quite significant about constructing unique perspectives that stand as obstacles between us and God?</p>
<p>Questions such as: &#8220;There&#8217;s so much pain and suffering in the world, where is God?&#8221; Seems like a thoughtful enough question. &#8220;You get me through this one, God, and I will have an easier time following you.&#8221;</p>
<p>Do we WORK AT such questions? Or is it rather that once erected, they serve us well as our conundrum for years on end?</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the nature of what we classify as &#8220;pain and suffering?&#8221; There&#8217;s much that can be said about this. I think we will find that man inflicts MORE pain and suffering upon one another, than God&#8217;s natural disasters ever do.</p>
<p>If we must have a reason for God&#8217;s natural disasters, how about this one. In the face of disaster, it suddenly becomes very clear that those that are able, need to tend to those in need, and we need to do it now.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s quite easy to loose sight of loving and caring for one another when the fridge is full and the game is on. Not that love and care does not happen in these moments either, but I think you get my point.</p>
<p>If you are to this point. Thanks for reading my post. I look forward to learning more from the thoughtful words of this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Siarlys Jenkins</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-44295</link>
		<dc:creator>Siarlys Jenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 11:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-44295</guid>
		<description>Nearly everything presented here has something to recommend it. Any approach to theodicy has to recognize that &quot;My ways are not your ways, saith the Lord.&quot; So, Pat Robertson hasn&#039;t a clue, and neither has anyone else, as far as getting to a definite answer.

We should, however, factor in free will. We have free will. We bear the costs of our own decisions. God may, for his own reasons, or out of sheer love for us curious hybrids (cf. C.S. Lewis), intervene to save us from the consequences of our own, or our neighbors&#039; decisions, or might not. Does nature have free will? Probably not in any sense of conscious, intelligent, self-aware, directed, will, but nature has not been carefully arranged to that we never get hurt, or everything always goes our way. If it did, our free will would be of little significance.

Rousseau has a point about our living in ways that invite greater disaster, e.g. crowding into large cities and tall buildings. How extensive would the damage from planes being crashed on 9.11.2001 have been if they crashed into an extensive tracts of bungalows, let along isolated rural farmsteads? This is where I really think overpopulation is a significant consideration. Maybe our technology and intensive agriculture can manage to support increased population, but how much more vulnerable do we make ourselves to tsunamis and earthquakes, hurricanes and tornadoes, in the process? There are other issues about what we are living for when we take that course.

In the end, I simply suggest that if things are going well, thank God, and if they are not, obviously things are not in perfect order with the way God would have things be. Nature is not perfect, we are not perfect, in some fumbling sense that even we don&#039;t perfectly understand, we are supposed to perfect ourselves, and our world. &quot;REPLENISH the earth and subdue it...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nearly everything presented here has something to recommend it. Any approach to theodicy has to recognize that &#8220;My ways are not your ways, saith the Lord.&#8221; So, Pat Robertson hasn&#8217;t a clue, and neither has anyone else, as far as getting to a definite answer.</p>
<p>We should, however, factor in free will. We have free will. We bear the costs of our own decisions. God may, for his own reasons, or out of sheer love for us curious hybrids (cf. C.S. Lewis), intervene to save us from the consequences of our own, or our neighbors&#8217; decisions, or might not. Does nature have free will? Probably not in any sense of conscious, intelligent, self-aware, directed, will, but nature has not been carefully arranged to that we never get hurt, or everything always goes our way. If it did, our free will would be of little significance.</p>
<p>Rousseau has a point about our living in ways that invite greater disaster, e.g. crowding into large cities and tall buildings. How extensive would the damage from planes being crashed on 9.11.2001 have been if they crashed into an extensive tracts of bungalows, let along isolated rural farmsteads? This is where I really think overpopulation is a significant consideration. Maybe our technology and intensive agriculture can manage to support increased population, but how much more vulnerable do we make ourselves to tsunamis and earthquakes, hurricanes and tornadoes, in the process? There are other issues about what we are living for when we take that course.</p>
<p>In the end, I simply suggest that if things are going well, thank God, and if they are not, obviously things are not in perfect order with the way God would have things be. Nature is not perfect, we are not perfect, in some fumbling sense that even we don&#8217;t perfectly understand, we are supposed to perfect ourselves, and our world. &#8220;REPLENISH the earth and subdue it&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jared</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-31629</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-31629</guid>
		<description>It would seem that Rousseau would also say, &quot;Don&#039;t build your village under a volcano and complain to God when your village is destroyed by lava.&quot;  People sometimes choose to live in harm&#039;s way.  Neither the earth nor God would be necessarily responsible for the outcome in this case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would seem that Rousseau would also say, &#8220;Don&#8217;t build your village under a volcano and complain to God when your village is destroyed by lava.&#8221;  People sometimes choose to live in harm&#8217;s way.  Neither the earth nor God would be necessarily responsible for the outcome in this case.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Woolcott</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-31235</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Woolcott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-31235</guid>
		<description>Typo: 1755 is ~250 years ago, not 350.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Typo: 1755 is ~250 years ago, not 350.</p>
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		<title>By: John Willson</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-31024</link>
		<dc:creator>John Willson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-31024</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s again some history for the consideration of those whose minds and hearts tend toward abstractions.  The worst earthquake we actually know about--that is, in terms of its violence and extent, not necessarily in loss of life (Haiti gets that one)--was the New Madrid abruption of 1811, which actually caused the Mississippi River to run backwards.  The biggest was the San Francisco quake of 1906,  which was probably a nine or better, and extended from Oregon to Los Angeles.  The reason to bring up this history is that the Saint Louis University (where I taught from 1967-75) seismographic center was founded by Jesuits in 1910 to look hard at exactly the difficulties Patrick brings up.  Fr. James B. Macelwane not only founded, but was the leader in this research until his death in 1956.  There is not only no disjunction between religion and science, there is a compatibility that gives science its only meaning in relation to the Created Order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s again some history for the consideration of those whose minds and hearts tend toward abstractions.  The worst earthquake we actually know about&#8211;that is, in terms of its violence and extent, not necessarily in loss of life (Haiti gets that one)&#8211;was the New Madrid abruption of 1811, which actually caused the Mississippi River to run backwards.  The biggest was the San Francisco quake of 1906,  which was probably a nine or better, and extended from Oregon to Los Angeles.  The reason to bring up this history is that the Saint Louis University (where I taught from 1967-75) seismographic center was founded by Jesuits in 1910 to look hard at exactly the difficulties Patrick brings up.  Fr. James B. Macelwane not only founded, but was the leader in this research until his death in 1956.  There is not only no disjunction between religion and science, there is a compatibility that gives science its only meaning in relation to the Created Order.</p>
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		<title>By: Articles for your consideration &#124; Conservative Heritage Times</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-30982</link>
		<dc:creator>Articles for your consideration &#124; Conservative Heritage Times</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-30982</guid>
		<description>[...] lots of good stuff at Front Porch Republic but here are couple of posts &#8220;WhyUs God?&#8221; by Patrick Deenen and &#8220;It&#8217;s the Land, Stupid!&#8221; by D.W Sabin.  &#124;  &#124;  &#124;  &#124;  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] lots of good stuff at Front Porch Republic but here are couple of posts &#8220;WhyUs God?&#8221; by Patrick Deenen and &#8220;It&#8217;s the Land, Stupid!&#8221; by D.W Sabin.  |  |  |  |  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Scallon</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-30981</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Scallon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-30981</guid>
		<description>The proof of God&#039;s existence comes in the everyday miracles of people&#039;s survival of such tragedies of natures and their response to them to aid the suffering and in spite of death such persons receive eternal life. If we do God&#039;s will in the face of such tragedies, then God lives in all of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The proof of God&#8217;s existence comes in the everyday miracles of people&#8217;s survival of such tragedies of natures and their response to them to aid the suffering and in spite of death such persons receive eternal life. If we do God&#8217;s will in the face of such tragedies, then God lives in all of us.</p>
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		<title>By: aloysius sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-30936</link>
		<dc:creator>aloysius sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-30936</guid>
		<description>Fiat Termini &amp; shifting

I am very much disappointed to hear that Fiat and many other companies are shifting their production centres from Italy or their home ground. As everybody of us knows that, it will create a community of unoccupied peoples and poverty in the society. Here the main issue is that, the companies are shifting their production centres to other nations, only for increase their profits. On those nations these companies are getting only the manpower at a low coast. All other cost of productions is almost same with their home land. So only for this reason (availability of labours at a low coast) they are shifting their production plants and creating a community of non working peoples and poverty in their home lands. But here the interesting thing is that, these all companies are looking to market their products mainly in the home land. For this they are spending a good amount as the shipping and other transportation. They want to market their product, where they are not interest to work. I am trying to say to these companies that, if the peoples over the country where you want to market your product, and are not having a proper job and falling into poverty, how you can market your product or how they can buy your product? So don’t try to look only your pocket, try to look after the peoples behind you. If the peoples over a country cautiously lost their jobs the crisis will be remain as the same...............</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fiat Termini &amp; shifting</p>
<p>I am very much disappointed to hear that Fiat and many other companies are shifting their production centres from Italy or their home ground. As everybody of us knows that, it will create a community of unoccupied peoples and poverty in the society. Here the main issue is that, the companies are shifting their production centres to other nations, only for increase their profits. On those nations these companies are getting only the manpower at a low coast. All other cost of productions is almost same with their home land. So only for this reason (availability of labours at a low coast) they are shifting their production plants and creating a community of non working peoples and poverty in their home lands. But here the interesting thing is that, these all companies are looking to market their products mainly in the home land. For this they are spending a good amount as the shipping and other transportation. They want to market their product, where they are not interest to work. I am trying to say to these companies that, if the peoples over the country where you want to market your product, and are not having a proper job and falling into poverty, how you can market your product or how they can buy your product? So don’t try to look only your pocket, try to look after the peoples behind you. If the peoples over a country cautiously lost their jobs the crisis will be remain as the same&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: D.W. Sabin</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-30933</link>
		<dc:creator>D.W. Sabin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-30933</guid>
		<description>The quest for easy answers continues apace. Man, this self appointed humane being is still but Potency. Until he stops his relentless banging and breaking of bones on this apodictic earth, he will remain simply the greatest contender on our planet of light and love. We strive for the truth of Being but awash in our materialism, we remain almost wholly distracted from the Actus Purus.

Perhaps potency is enough for us. If it is, count on fear, dread, lust and revenge continuing their dynamic reign. There will always be another hurricane , earthquake, volcano or war. Their aftermath reminds us of the trail into Being we forsake at the altar of amusements called Potency. 

Needles to say, Dr. Pangloss will be there to smile and tell us to soldier on cheerfully while Mephisto lurks in the debris-laden background, harvesting our industrial output of strivers. Meanwhile, the pridefully righteous will tut-tut in chorus, like the click-clacking of dung beetles in the duff, rolling little balls of shit as if their life depended upon it. 

Still, this attempt at Being deal is better than a kick in the head, which it sometimes is. Anybody with the bad form to accuse victims of any tragedy as deserving their fate, particularly when said accusation is rendered from the comfort of a televised confessional....well, they should keep an eye peeled for incoming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The quest for easy answers continues apace. Man, this self appointed humane being is still but Potency. Until he stops his relentless banging and breaking of bones on this apodictic earth, he will remain simply the greatest contender on our planet of light and love. We strive for the truth of Being but awash in our materialism, we remain almost wholly distracted from the Actus Purus.</p>
<p>Perhaps potency is enough for us. If it is, count on fear, dread, lust and revenge continuing their dynamic reign. There will always be another hurricane , earthquake, volcano or war. Their aftermath reminds us of the trail into Being we forsake at the altar of amusements called Potency. </p>
<p>Needles to say, Dr. Pangloss will be there to smile and tell us to soldier on cheerfully while Mephisto lurks in the debris-laden background, harvesting our industrial output of strivers. Meanwhile, the pridefully righteous will tut-tut in chorus, like the click-clacking of dung beetles in the duff, rolling little balls of shit as if their life depended upon it. </p>
<p>Still, this attempt at Being deal is better than a kick in the head, which it sometimes is. Anybody with the bad form to accuse victims of any tragedy as deserving their fate, particularly when said accusation is rendered from the comfort of a televised confessional&#8230;.well, they should keep an eye peeled for incoming.</p>
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		<title>By: J.D. Salyer</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-30876</link>
		<dc:creator>J.D. Salyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-30876</guid>
		<description>Rob is quite right to bring up Brothers Karamazov; the episode in question relates directly to Dr. Deneen&#039;s application of &quot;the way of ignorance.&quot;  

In one particularly striking passage, Ivan compares the thought of a mother forgiving her child&#039;s murderer to non-Euclidean geometry in which parallel lines do in fact eventually meet -- he cannot conceive or understand either occurrence, and thus refuses to accept them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob is quite right to bring up Brothers Karamazov; the episode in question relates directly to Dr. Deneen&#8217;s application of &#8220;the way of ignorance.&#8221;  </p>
<p>In one particularly striking passage, Ivan compares the thought of a mother forgiving her child&#8217;s murderer to non-Euclidean geometry in which parallel lines do in fact eventually meet &#8212; he cannot conceive or understand either occurrence, and thus refuses to accept them.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob G</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-30866</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 23:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-30866</guid>
		<description>Far and away the best book on theodicy I&#039;ve ever read is David Bentley Hart&#039;s &#039;The Doors of the Sea,&#039; subtitled &#039;Where Was God in the Tsunami?&#039;  Hart looks at Voltaire&#039;s response to the Lisbon earthquake and sees an attack not on the God of Christianity but the false God of a rosy deism.  The real challenge to the goodness of the Christian God is found, according to Hart, in Ivan Karamazov&#039;s protests against the unwarranted suffering of innocent children; and Hart believes that Dostoevsky, through Alyosha and Fr. Zossima, answers Ivan&#039;s challenge.

I&#039;m of the opinion that attempting to discuss theodicy without reference to it is akin to discussing ethics without reference to Alasdair MacIntyre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Far and away the best book on theodicy I&#8217;ve ever read is David Bentley Hart&#8217;s &#8216;The Doors of the Sea,&#8217; subtitled &#8216;Where Was God in the Tsunami?&#8217;  Hart looks at Voltaire&#8217;s response to the Lisbon earthquake and sees an attack not on the God of Christianity but the false God of a rosy deism.  The real challenge to the goodness of the Christian God is found, according to Hart, in Ivan Karamazov&#8217;s protests against the unwarranted suffering of innocent children; and Hart believes that Dostoevsky, through Alyosha and Fr. Zossima, answers Ivan&#8217;s challenge.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m of the opinion that attempting to discuss theodicy without reference to it is akin to discussing ethics without reference to Alasdair MacIntyre.</p>
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		<title>By: Heylucas</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-30860</link>
		<dc:creator>Heylucas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 23:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-30860</guid>
		<description>Well said William.
I do think that the story of Cain and Abel has been misread by the author as an &quot;inexplicable preference.&quot; A quick consultation with any respectable commentary from a Biblical commentary would reveal a wealth of solid interpretation. I&#039;ll cut to the chase- it was a matter of the heart. A charismatic singer from the 80s once sang:

&quot;To obey is better than sacrifice
I don&#039;t need your money
I want your life.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said William.<br />
I do think that the story of Cain and Abel has been misread by the author as an &#8220;inexplicable preference.&#8221; A quick consultation with any respectable commentary from a Biblical commentary would reveal a wealth of solid interpretation. I&#8217;ll cut to the chase- it was a matter of the heart. A charismatic singer from the 80s once sang:</p>
<p>&#8220;To obey is better than sacrifice<br />
I don&#8217;t need your money<br />
I want your life.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: William Black</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-30841</link>
		<dc:creator>William Black</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-30841</guid>
		<description>It is the disturbing fact of conflicting evidence that makes theodicy necessary.  And while it is true that in many cases we humans are the cause, or at least a contributing factor, in our own disasters (cutting corners by using substandard cement in construction, for example, or insisting on living in areas prone to flooding, the catastrophe of war, etc).  

But sometimes, things happen, seemingly randomly and most certainly tragically - routine surgery that goes inexplicably wrong, or a drought that wipes out local subsistence agriculture for three years leading to massive famine.  God gets the blame when we are faced with circumstances we cannot explain.  Dissonance occurs when our image of God is undermined by our experience of reality.  We get entangled in complex discussions of the relative boundaries of human freedom and divine sovereignty, and we are uncomfortable with the implications of every attempted solution. 

For those who understand the Christian Scriptures as revelation, there is much that the Christian Trinity has revealed about himself and his ways.  But there is also still much that is left unexplained.  Evil is one such issue, as is God&#039;s apparently hands-off treatment of it, at least in our limited experience.  Somehow, the equation of God&#039;s risk in creating creatures with the capacity to love (which meant creating creatures with the capacity to choose not to love), combined with the actuality of our choices, multiplied by the implications and consequences of those choices reverberating across countless relationships, including, most seriously, brokenness, alienation and death itself, somehow all this goes a long way towards comprehending the slow-motion train wreck we all seem to be participating in.  But it also goes a long way towards explaining why incarnation, cross and resurrection, reconciliation and the restoration of the ability to love make up God&#039;s unexpected answer to our plight.  

Those who wish to follow Job&#039;s wife&#039;s advice to curse God and die have the harder task of explaining why God would choose to take on our curse and undertake death itself - his own theodicy, as it were.  Could it be that there is something bigger going on than we can fathom?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is the disturbing fact of conflicting evidence that makes theodicy necessary.  And while it is true that in many cases we humans are the cause, or at least a contributing factor, in our own disasters (cutting corners by using substandard cement in construction, for example, or insisting on living in areas prone to flooding, the catastrophe of war, etc).  </p>
<p>But sometimes, things happen, seemingly randomly and most certainly tragically &#8211; routine surgery that goes inexplicably wrong, or a drought that wipes out local subsistence agriculture for three years leading to massive famine.  God gets the blame when we are faced with circumstances we cannot explain.  Dissonance occurs when our image of God is undermined by our experience of reality.  We get entangled in complex discussions of the relative boundaries of human freedom and divine sovereignty, and we are uncomfortable with the implications of every attempted solution. </p>
<p>For those who understand the Christian Scriptures as revelation, there is much that the Christian Trinity has revealed about himself and his ways.  But there is also still much that is left unexplained.  Evil is one such issue, as is God&#8217;s apparently hands-off treatment of it, at least in our limited experience.  Somehow, the equation of God&#8217;s risk in creating creatures with the capacity to love (which meant creating creatures with the capacity to choose not to love), combined with the actuality of our choices, multiplied by the implications and consequences of those choices reverberating across countless relationships, including, most seriously, brokenness, alienation and death itself, somehow all this goes a long way towards comprehending the slow-motion train wreck we all seem to be participating in.  But it also goes a long way towards explaining why incarnation, cross and resurrection, reconciliation and the restoration of the ability to love make up God&#8217;s unexpected answer to our plight.  </p>
<p>Those who wish to follow Job&#8217;s wife&#8217;s advice to curse God and die have the harder task of explaining why God would choose to take on our curse and undertake death itself &#8211; his own theodicy, as it were.  Could it be that there is something bigger going on than we can fathom?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Cheeks</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-30837</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Cheeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-30837</guid>
		<description>Pat, I liked the way you showed linkage between knowledge and pride, a point that grounds my own thoughts of gnosticism and its optimistic cousin, hermeticism, in their age old effort to conjure a magical reality sans God.

However, there are &quot;political&quot; sciences e.g. &quot;politically correct science,&quot; clearly illustrated in the recent revelations that certain climate data was falsified by radical leftists to justify a lie, which suggests that scientific information will have to be closely monitored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat, I liked the way you showed linkage between knowledge and pride, a point that grounds my own thoughts of gnosticism and its optimistic cousin, hermeticism, in their age old effort to conjure a magical reality sans God.</p>
<p>However, there are &#8220;political&#8221; sciences e.g. &#8220;politically correct science,&#8221; clearly illustrated in the recent revelations that certain climate data was falsified by radical leftists to justify a lie, which suggests that scientific information will have to be closely monitored.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon S.</title>
		<link>http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/03/why-us-god/#comment-30825</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 16:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=9155#comment-30825</guid>
		<description>Patrick,

What do you make of the advocacy of some on the environmental left for &quot;green jobs&quot;?  Is this not a way to have your cake and eat it, too?  We can be kind to nature while also creating jobs and wealth through green technology.  This strikes me as being distinct from a left that &quot;insists upon the merits and necessity of scientific advancement, and embraces a Rousseauian environmentalism that condemns science and technology out the other side of their mouths.&quot;  I mean, Na&#039;vi don&#039;t drive Prius&#039;s, but many self-righteous leftists do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick,</p>
<p>What do you make of the advocacy of some on the environmental left for &#8220;green jobs&#8221;?  Is this not a way to have your cake and eat it, too?  We can be kind to nature while also creating jobs and wealth through green technology.  This strikes me as being distinct from a left that &#8220;insists upon the merits and necessity of scientific advancement, and embraces a Rousseauian environmentalism that condemns science and technology out the other side of their mouths.&#8221;  I mean, Na&#8217;vi don&#8217;t drive Prius&#8217;s, but many self-righteous leftists do.</p>
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