Comments on: Egalitarian Western Liberals & The July 20 Plot http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/ Place. Limits. Liberty. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:09:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: M C http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-87828 M C Fri, 25 Mar 2011 22:52:23 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-87828 "I have seen the next generation of leadership up close, and it is not pretty...Perhaps the most optimistic thing one could say of our bourgeois-bohemian class is that most of them are simply too insipid and shallow to be deliberately wicked." I might resemble that remark. However, I remain hopeful that some of us will rise - as if from Atlantis - to provide a few keen minds in the coming years. “I have seen the next generation of leadership up close, and it is not pretty…Perhaps the most optimistic thing one could say of our bourgeois-bohemian class is that most of them are simply too insipid and shallow to be deliberately wicked.”

I might resemble that remark. However, I remain hopeful that some of us will rise – as if from Atlantis – to provide a few keen minds in the coming years.

]]> By: Wessexman http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-63936 Wessexman Sun, 08 Aug 2010 12:43:15 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-63936 Btw it is the 20th July plot....bloody colonials. Btw it is the 20th July plot….bloody colonials.

]]> By: Wessexman http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-63630 Wessexman Sat, 07 Aug 2010 05:45:51 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-63630 Andrew is partially right; the plot could have failed to make things much better. But apart from that I agree with Steve.K there is not much point to his post. Things couldn't have got much worse and could have ended a lot better, so I struggle to see how Andrew's post invalidates Jerry's very good article. Andrew is partially right; the plot could have failed to make things much better. But apart from that I agree with Steve.K there is not much point to his post. Things couldn’t have got much worse and could have ended a lot better, so I struggle to see how Andrew’s post invalidates Jerry’s very good article.

]]> By: Jeffrey Polet http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-60925 Jeffrey Polet Sat, 24 Jul 2010 02:27:10 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-60925 An addendum: Hans von Dohnanyi was married to Bonhoeffer's sister. In addition to his heroic actions in the war, Hans gave to the world his son Christoph, who went on to become Music Director of the glorious Cleveland Orchestra. In June of 1995 I attended a performance at Severance Hall of Brahms' Requiem, conducted by von Dohnanyi. The combination of the music (I'll fight any man who disparages the piece), the 50th anniversary of the end of the war, this noble musician commemorating his father and uncle who died in an honorable cause, and the fact it was my birthday, made this one of the two or three most memorable nights I've ever spent in a concert hall. (For anyone who's interested, Michael Tilson-Thomas led the Clevelanders in a shattering performance of Mahler's 6th which make me tremble any time I recall it.) These men involved in the plot were genuine heroes, perhaps especially Bonhoeffer, who recognized that necessity sometimes trumps principle, and one can't maintain the purity of one's beliefs while the world goes to hell. Thanks for the essay. I really liked it. An addendum: Hans von Dohnanyi was married to Bonhoeffer’s sister. In addition to his heroic actions in the war, Hans gave to the world his son Christoph, who went on to become Music Director of the glorious Cleveland Orchestra. In June of 1995 I attended a performance at Severance Hall of Brahms’ Requiem, conducted by von Dohnanyi. The combination of the music (I’ll fight any man who disparages the piece), the 50th anniversary of the end of the war, this noble musician commemorating his father and uncle who died in an honorable cause, and the fact it was my birthday, made this one of the two or three most memorable nights I’ve ever spent in a concert hall. (For anyone who’s interested, Michael Tilson-Thomas led the Clevelanders in a shattering performance of Mahler’s 6th which make me tremble any time I recall it.) These men involved in the plot were genuine heroes, perhaps especially Bonhoeffer, who recognized that necessity sometimes trumps principle, and one can’t maintain the purity of one’s beliefs while the world goes to hell.

Thanks for the essay. I really liked it.

]]> By: P.D.H. http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-60924 P.D.H. Sat, 24 Jul 2010 02:21:29 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-60924 This was very good. Thanks. PDH This was very good. Thanks.

PDH

]]> By: Alethea http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-60507 Alethea Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:10:20 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-60507 Thank you for posting this! I appreciate learning about history that doesn't necessarily make headlines, but does chronicle the lives of noble men. Thank you for posting this! I appreciate learning about history that doesn’t necessarily make headlines, but does chronicle the lives of noble men.

]]> By: JD Salyer http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-60366 JD Salyer Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:34:06 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-60366 The comments are appreciated. I especially appreciate Stephen & Steve for bothering to master the spelling of my name. The comments are appreciated.

I especially appreciate Stephen & Steve for bothering to master the spelling of my name.

]]> By: Steve K. http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-60363 Steve K. Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:26:49 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-60363 PS - Andrew, I am trying to find a point in what you wrote but am coming up empty. Perhaps with Mr. Salyer's history scholarship you could some vouchers to a English composition class? PS – Andrew, I am trying to find a point in what you wrote but am coming up empty. Perhaps with Mr. Salyer’s history scholarship you could some vouchers to a English composition class?

]]> By: Steve K. http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-60361 Steve K. Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:23:14 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-60361 The men in and around the Kreisauer Kreis have long been heroes and inspirations to me (as well as a notable contemporary, not a member of the circle but himself a lion against the Nazis - Cardinal von Galen). I spent my VMI Second Class year at the Universität der Bundeswehr in Hamburg. One of my friends and classmates there was from an aristocratic family that is friends with the Stauffenberg family. I was introduced to the history of these men, what they believed and represented, and was deeply impressed. Judging by my friend, there are still some men of this kind from the old nobility. Thank you for posting this piece, you honor their memory. It is said that light shines all the more brightly the deeper the darkness. Our noxious SWPL anti-culture has its own shade darkness, I hope we find our figures of light to shine through it. The men in and around the Kreisauer Kreis have long been heroes and inspirations to me (as well as a notable contemporary, not a member of the circle but himself a lion against the Nazis – Cardinal von Galen). I spent my VMI Second Class year at the Universität der Bundeswehr in Hamburg. One of my friends and classmates there was from an aristocratic family that is friends with the Stauffenberg family. I was introduced to the history of these men, what they believed and represented, and was deeply impressed. Judging by my friend, there are still some men of this kind from the old nobility.

Thank you for posting this piece, you honor their memory. It is said that light shines all the more brightly the deeper the darkness. Our noxious SWPL anti-culture has its own shade darkness, I hope we find our figures of light to shine through it.

]]> By: David http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-60354 David Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:04:08 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-60354 I actually think I felt my IQ go up while reading that. I'm not sure, it has been so long since the decline had set in, perhaps it was just gas. I find WWII fascination tedious at best, but this gives me something worth chewing on. I actually think I felt my IQ go up while reading that. I’m not sure, it has been so long since the decline had set in, perhaps it was just gas.

I find WWII fascination tedious at best, but this gives me something worth chewing on.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-60349 Andrew Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:45:18 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-60349 I had to read this article a second time just to make sure it was that lame. This article is a great example of “Disney alternate-history,” that only assumes an improvement on what happened. Who says that a successful revolution would have lead to the death camps shutting down, or peace with the allies? The plotters could have made a separate peace with the USSR, or they could have been beaten by the SS AFTER Hitler was killed (leaving Himler in charge of the Reich.) How about a communist revolution in the political turmoil that would follow such a civil war? This article does not even mention that on the day of the coup, the Allies had just concluded operation Goodwood, an abortive attempt to break out of the Normandy Bridgehead which cost the British 4000 casualties and hundreds of tanks for a worthless 7 miles. They feared a return to WWI style near-static trench warfare. Taking one paper written by one member of the British foreign office and spinning a yarn like this about the reasons behind allied policy is embarrassingly poor scholarship. Of course there were good Germans, the question is - in 1944 - would they have done the allies any good? Let us not confuse British intelligence blunders with policy. Now, what is this sudden comparison of globalists with Nazis? Is the Front Porch Republic going to let the globalists win by Godwin’s law? In lieu of a caning, send Mr. Slayer on scholarship to a school with a decent History program. I had to read this article a second time just to make sure it was that lame. This article is a great example of “Disney alternate-history,” that only assumes an improvement on what happened. Who says that a successful revolution would have lead to the death camps shutting down, or peace with the allies? The plotters could have made a separate peace with the USSR, or they could have been beaten by the SS AFTER Hitler was killed (leaving Himler in charge of the Reich.) How about a communist revolution in the political turmoil that would follow such a civil war? This article does not even mention that on the day of the coup, the Allies had just concluded operation Goodwood, an abortive attempt to break out of the Normandy Bridgehead which cost the British 4000 casualties and hundreds of tanks for a worthless 7 miles. They feared a return to WWI style near-static trench warfare. Taking one paper written by one member of the British foreign office and spinning a yarn like this about the reasons behind allied policy is embarrassingly poor scholarship. Of course there were good Germans, the question is – in 1944 – would they have done the allies any good? Let us not confuse British intelligence blunders with policy.

Now, what is this sudden comparison of globalists with Nazis? Is the Front Porch Republic going to let the globalists win by Godwin’s law? In lieu of a caning, send Mr. Slayer on scholarship to a school with a decent History program.

]]> By: D.W. Sabin http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-60321 D.W. Sabin Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:13:59 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-60321 A fine blatzing roar. "They are all fluff". Pretty well sums it up. A fine blatzing roar. “They are all fluff”. Pretty well sums it up.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/07/the-gestapo-and-the-ss-have-done-us-an-appreciable-service-egalitarian-western-liberals-the-july-20-plot/#comment-60309 Stephen Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:23:55 +0000 http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=12227#comment-60309 Quite the diatribe, Mr. Salyer. I especially liked these two sentences: "Such ignoble behavior is explicable if we recognize that the modern West’s supposed intellectual-class consists simply of sophists peddling a self-interested narrative. Only egalitarian progressives are true human beings, you see, and hence egalitarian progressives hold a monopoly on decency and virtue." They remind me of a story about Eric Voegelin (to be found, I believe, in <i>Autobiographical Reflections</i>). One time he and his wife Lissy were at a conference, and it turned out that Ernst Bloch, the illustrious Marxist, was also attending the conference. Lissy then got to talking with Bloch's wife. Lissy mentioned that she and her husband had been forced to leave Austria after the <i>Anschluss</i> (because of Voegelin's anti-Nazi writings, of course). Bloch's wife then asked in disbelief, "Why did you have to leave? Your husband is not a Jew or a Communist, is he?" Voegelin told the story to illustrate precisely the point you raise in those two sentences. Quite the diatribe, Mr. Salyer.

I especially liked these two sentences:
“Such ignoble behavior is explicable if we recognize that the modern West’s supposed intellectual-class consists simply of sophists peddling a self-interested narrative. Only egalitarian progressives are true human beings, you see, and hence egalitarian progressives hold a monopoly on decency and virtue.”

They remind me of a story about Eric Voegelin (to be found, I believe, in Autobiographical Reflections). One time he and his wife Lissy were at a conference, and it turned out that Ernst Bloch, the illustrious Marxist, was also attending the conference. Lissy then got to talking with Bloch’s wife. Lissy mentioned that she and her husband had been forced to leave Austria after the Anschluss (because of Voegelin’s anti-Nazi writings, of course). Bloch’s wife then asked in disbelief, “Why did you have to leave? Your husband is not a Jew or a Communist, is he?”

Voegelin told the story to illustrate precisely the point you raise in those two sentences.

]]>